Diving Tackle and Shadowing

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bouncergriim
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Diving Tackle and Shadowing

Post by bouncergriim »

Can both diving tackle and shadowing be used one right after the other on the same dodge attempt by an opponent?

I shadow a dodge sucessfully the opponent rolls a 3 which would be a successful dodge, can I then use DT to make him fail the dodge, even though I am already in the square he left because of shadowing?

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Post by Mad Jackal »

No.

You have to choose or not choose to use diving tackle before rolling for the shadowing as shadwing requires a sucessfull dodge roll. Diving tackle being applied would make it un-sucessfull and he would fall on the square dodging to and you would be placed be prone.

If he dodges AGAIN then you may Diving tackle him on the next one in the case where you already shadowed him after his 3.

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Post by bouncergriim »

I thought that you choose to use skills after a die roll (so you would choose whether or not to Diving Tackle after you see what the opponent rolls).

Shadowing on the other hand states that it can be used any time an opponent performs an action that moves them out of your players tackle zone.

My question is that DT specifically states you move into the square vacated by the opponent you are DTing. Can you use this skill though if you are already in that square?

How I think the sequence would work

1 Opponent places his figure into the square he is to dodge to.
2 roll for shadowing (and I am sucessful in this roll)
3 place my player in vacated square
4 opponent rolls dodge and gets a 3 (he needed a 2+)
5 Can I then choose to use DT to make him fall down, after DT modifier 3 becomes a 1?

No where in the rules does it say anything about how these interact, but I think it would be a very powerful combination if it worked this way.



Relevant text from skills
Shadowing
The player may use this skill when a player performing an Action on the
opposing team moves out of any of his tackle zones for any reason.
Each coach rolls a D6 and adds their own player’s movement allowance
to the score. If the shadowing player’s coach manages to equal or beat
the other coach’s score, then he may move his player into the square
vacated by the opposing player.
Diving tackle
The player may use this skill after an opposing player attempts to dodge
out of any of his tackle zones. The player using this skill is Placed Prone
in the square vacated by the dodging player, but do not make an Armour
or Injury roll for them. The opposing player must then subtract 2 from his
Dodge roll for leaving the player's tackle zone. If a player is attempting to
leave the tackle zone of several players that have the Diving Tackle skill,
then only one of the opposing players may use Diving Tackle. Diving
Tackle may be used on a re-rolled dodge if not declared for use on the
first Dodge roll. In addition, if Diving Tackle is used on the 1st Dodge roll,
both the -2 modifier and tackle zone still apply to the Dodge re-roll.

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Post by Cramy »

I interpret both as being used after the dodge rolls have been rolled. Which means that they are mutually exclusive.

So I'm now questioning the sequence of events for shadowing.

Sequence 1)
A) Opponent declares dodge
B) Opponent moves his player
C) Opponent rolls for dodge
D) After the roll, shadowing player selects if he wants to shadow or not and shadowing rolls are done.

Sequence 2)
A) Opponent declares dodge
B) Opponent moves his player
C) Shadowing player selects if he wants to shadow or not and shadowing rolls are done.
D) Opponent rolls for dodge

Sequence 1) would not allow for a Shadow/DT combo. Sequence 2) would. I've read the shadowing skill description a few times now, and it is not clear to me.

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Post by bouncergriim »

since shadowing mentions any action that moves an opponent out of a players TZ then it could be used on blocks with follow-up (but that is not my question). Since it only mentions moving out, one could use shadowing even if an opponent trips as they dodge. But they would have choose to use shadowing after the move not after the dodge.

I prefer the way you mention it, because after I see the die roll for a dodge I can then choose which skill would be more useful. But I read it a little differently, and can't get over my initial interpretation.

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

Official answer quoting some of my older posts on TBB that I just searched for:
Diving Tackle is triggered by the attempt to leave a TZ.
Shadowing is triggered by the success of leaving a TZ.

If the dodge roll is good enough for Diving Tackle to not stop it ... then you can choose to not use it ... as soon as they leave your TZ ... Shadowing becomes eligible and you can use that.
The correct order for this is:

1) Declare attempt to Dodge
2) Roll for the Dodge
3) Use Diving Tackle or not
4) Dodge may be re-rolled by team re-roll, Dodge skill, or Pro (Diving Tackle modifier if used applies to 2nd roll as well)
4) Move the player ... if he failed knock down roll AV/INJ
5) Player has left your TZ ... Shadowing triggers if the Shadowing player is still standing

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Post by bouncergriim »

If he leaves your tackle zone due to a failed dodge can you still shadow. By Galak's answer I would assume no. But, technically the opponent did leave your TZ so you could shadow him accoarding to the wording of current LRB5 Shadowing (that is if I read/interpret it correctly).

The advantage of this would be to move out of another opponents TZ and not have to use DT so you are still standing (that is if the opponent failed their dodge without you needed to DT)

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

bouncergriim wrote:If he leaves your tackle zone due to a failed dodge can you still shadow. By Galak's answer I would assume no. But, technically the opponent did leave your TZ so you could shadow him accoarding to the wording of current LRB5 Shadowing (that is if I read/interpret it correctly).
You can definitely Shadow a player that fails a dodge out of your tackle zone (as long as you are not Prone from using Diving Tackle).

Galak

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Post by Mad Jackal »

My mistake. I knew it wasn't possible to shadow then diving tackle I just got confiused about the technical part.

Thanks for clearing that up Galak.

"You can't shadow after going prone from Diving tackle, and you can not diving tackle after shadowing" should be easy to remember.

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Post by Cramy »

Thanks Galak.

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