Dauntless and Foul Appearance

[Jural]

Reservoir Elves,

When we played, I just assumed something like the list Fen made was going on. My list was a bit more complicated though, as follows:

In my head, the order of any block is always as follows:

1. Declare the block action and target
1a. Make and resolve any enabling rolls to see if the player can declare the action (Bonehead, Jump Up, Foul Appearance etc.)
2. Calculate strengths for each player.
2a. Make any relevant skill declarations regarding the strength for each side (Dauntless, Multiple Block)
2b. Resolve the skill declarations with rolls (only Dauntless.)
3. Calculate assists for each side.
3a. Make any relevant skill declarations regarding the assists for each side (Guard)

Then 5-7 as per Fen's list (I think 1 and 2 are actually one entire step.)

The reason I thought that came from the texts of Foul Appearance and Dauntless, namely:

Foul Appearance: The player’s appearance...any opposing player that wants to block the player ...must first roll a D6 and score 2 or more.

Dauntless:A player with this skill ...The strength of both players is calculated before any defensive or offensive assists are added but after all other modifiers.

FA seems to imply that it must be rolled prior to the block action even taking place (it's as if the action didn't even get declared.) Dauntless seems to indicate that it is only rolled once the block action itself is occurring.

Now, the more difficult question- If a Jump-Up player wants to block a FA appearance player, which takes precedence? I would assume Jump Up, but it's less clear to me. I could argue that FA should be rolled 1st, and if the roll fails, the Jump Up player could not even roll to stand up and block!

[zephard]

Were I would say Jump Up would be rolled first. For one can not actually attempt to block if one is not standing. But verbage is everything.

[Darkson]

Jump Up would be under 1a (as you'd still need to declare the Block action and target first).

[zephard]

Jump Up would be under 1a (as you'd still need to declare the Block action and target first).

Yes but so is Foul Appearance. Which was the question which one first.

Between the two, I would think the more "Difficult" one (Jump Up).

[GalakStarscraper]

Jump Up would be under 1a (as you'd still need to declare the Block action and target first).

Yes but so is Foul Appearance. Which was the question which one first.

Between the two, I would think the more "Difficult" one (Jump Up).

I'd say Jump Up is before Foul Appearance because if you fail the Jump Up roll ... there isn't even an attempt to block and failing the FA roll if done first would basically end the player's action which would mean that FA would even stop him from standing up ... which doesn't make sense.

Galak

[Xeterog]

Jump Up would be under 1a (as you'd still need to declare the Block action and target first).

Yes but so is Foul Appearance. Which was the question which one first.

Between the two, I would think the more "Difficult" one (Jump Up).

Difficulty of the roll should have no bearing on which one is rolled 1st.

Think of what is happening and what 'should' happen 1st. This will usually get to the right answer..(if not, it should be spelled out in the rules--see interceptions)

[Jural]

I'd say Jump Up is before Foul Appearance because if you fail the Jump Up roll ... there isn't even an attempt to block and failing the FA roll if done first would basically end the player's action which would mean that FA would even stop him from standing up ... which doesn't make sense.

Galak

I think it's a gray area, but certainly I'd buy that ruling. The finals in our league has a shot at being Dark Elves vs. Nurgle, so I'll get the buy-off from our commish that it should be handled that way.

Thanks for the answer!