Skaven Gutter Runners Doubles Skill?

Yelf · Post by **Yelf** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:04 pm

Just started playing BB and gave it a go with Skaven. Ive found tons of articles about skaven but all according to the old rules.

thing is this I got a double skill for both my Runners as a first skill. But I really dont know what to chose! Seems that all the block, side step, strip ball and catch skills are all better chocies for the runners then the double alternatives.

Any thoughts about skaven skill progression especially regarding the lovely little runners?

Loving the game so far!

Craigtw · Post by **Craigtw** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:22 pm

With doubles you are allowed mutations, and while at the early stages it is certainly a good idea to go for the standard choices (block, wrestle, side step) the mutations offer some interesting mutation alternatives.

Consider Big Hand, move in and pick up a ball on a 2+ regardless of the number of tackle zones. Another good one would be horns, which would allow this player to blitz with S3, couple this with leap and strip ball and you have a nightmare of a safety!

If you do go with standard skills, I would think that wrestle would be an excellent choice for this player - if you are trying to take another player down, then only pushes will deny you (and of course the skull). If that other player has block the it will be a standoff. Finally with the GRs excellent movement he doesn't have to worry too much about standing after wrestling someone down (or you can get the jump up if this does concern you)

tzoscey · Post by **tzoscey** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:47 pm

Long legs...

and the next ability spring

Leipziger · Post by **Leipziger** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:33 pm

Big Hand is very good. I also got a lot of mileage from 2 heads

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:58 pm

Accurate or Pass.

Develop one into a great thrower will make diffrence in your team.

Lets say you roll two doubles and get yourself four skills

1. Accurate
2. Pass
3. Sure Hands
4. Block

Thats a good thrower! You still have three "catchers" around

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:19 pm

If you want a great thrower, then use a thrower! With pass already, accurate as a first skill and then they are better than GRs at throwing the ball. Back it up with safe throw, KoR and strong arm on doubles and you have a much better - dedicated - passer.

For me Gutters have a few good choices. In no particular order

1) Nerves of Steel. Makes him awesome at getting the ball (or getting rid of the ball) in TZ.
2) Big Hand - 2+ pick ups regardless of TZ is always good.
3) Horns - gutters make excellent blitzers when properly developed thanks to their superb speed.
4) Guard - guard is always good. Highly mobile guards are very useful.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:47 pm

ianwilliams wrote:If you want a great thrower, then use a thrower! With pass already, accurate as a first skill and then they are better than GRs at throwing the ball. Back it up with safe throw, KoR and strong arm on doubles and you have a much better - dedicated - passer.

For me Gutters have a few good choices. In no particular order

1) Nerves of Steel. Makes him awesome at getting the ball (or getting rid of the ball) in TZ.
2) Big Hand - 2+ pick ups regardless of TZ is always good.
3) Horns - gutters make excellent blitzers when properly developed thanks to their superb speed.
4) Guard - guard is always good. Highly mobile guards are very useful.

What he said.

Also Two Heads is also of good use. Dodge into one TZ still on a 2+. There is almost always an opportunity to go past your opponent's defence without having to dodge into more than one TZ.

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:34 am

Big Hand and Horns. Then Wrestle and Strip Ball (or Strip Ball first if there's not a lot of Sure Hands on the other teams) on the Horns guy next. On paper they make a good pair. The Horns guy extracts the ball from a cage and the Big Hands buy picks it up.

I also think that making a Gutter Runner into a thrower is a bad idea. They are so good at offense right out of the box that they should be developed with Defense in mind (barring the mandatory one-turner).

Brokje · Post by **Brokje** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:38 am

I always find the Guard Runners the most annoying on Skaven teams. Next skills Block and Side Step, and he will become a mobile annoyer...

; )

Cheers!
B

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:47 am

Joemanji wrote:
ianwilliams wrote:If you want a great thrower, then use a thrower! With pass already, accurate as a first skill and then they are better than GRs at throwing the ball. Back it up with safe throw, KoR and strong arm on doubles and you have a much better - dedicated - passer.

For me Gutters have a few good choices. In no particular order

1) Nerves of Steel. Makes him awesome at getting the ball (or getting rid of the ball) in TZ.
2) Big Hand - 2+ pick ups regardless of TZ is always good.
3) Horns - gutters make excellent blitzers when properly developed thanks to their superb speed.
4) Guard - guard is always good. Highly mobile guards are very useful.
What he said. Also Two Heads is also of good use. Dodge into one TZ still on a 2+. There is almost always an opportunity to go past your opponent's defence without having to dodge into more than one TZ.

What they said. Although personally I think NOS is worse than the others.

Brokje · Post by **Brokje** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:06 pm

Agree with PubBowler. I think Skaven need Defensive skills, not Offensive (or even better, skills which are both). You could argue that NoS can be used both on Offense and Defense, but I always think the counter attack (running off with the ball after sacking the ball carrier) is Offensive again. Guard will help on Defense, as will Horns. Two Heads can do that, but less IMO...

Cheers!
B

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:41 pm

Brokje wrote:Agree with PubBowler. I think Skaven need Defensive skills, not Offensive (or even better, skills which are both).

I agree too in that you should always try to shore up your Gutters with defensive/harassing skills first to capitalize on counter attacks. BUT, if you can spare one of your 4 Gutter Runners and develop him with NOS, it can be just devastating on offence. A GR+NOS becomes the ultimate midfield playmaker since he can now always catch a pass in traffic then escape and hand the ball off to a downfield teammate for the score. He's almost as good as an AG5 Runner at being the middleman for your drive.

It's a luxury to have NOS at low TV, but it becomes a really useful option at higher TV when the other teams have come up with lots of impediments to lessen the reliability of your two-turn scoring drives.

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:05 pm

I have a big handed + nos gutter runner who I gave leap and sure hands to, now he really makes you pay for leaving the ball on the pitch (even in zones)

I like ian's skill choices for unskilled gutters.

If they already had skills that would sort it to different choices.

In this case I'd take one big hand and 1 horns I think. One blitzing type runner and one ball retriever runner.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:35 pm

I'd probably go for Big Hand. It's just too useful for grabbing the ball, especially if you have another Gutter Runner with Strip Ball working with him.

Two Heads should get my second vote.

~Andromidius

Stout Youngblood · Post by **Stout Youngblood** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:56 pm

I would go with Very Long Legs and his next skill leap. But thats just my two cents.