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Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wrong??
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:56 pm
by Alamar
Issue: Let's say I have a Vampire that declares a move action. The Vampire tries to dodge away from a player that uses Tentacles. The Vampire fails his action. Is the Vampire allowed to Hypno Gaze the Tentacle player after failing the Tentacles roll??
From what I understand a Hypno Gaze occurs "at the end of his move action" ... With Tentacles once you fail the roll then "his action ends immediately".
The way I read that is that Tentacles wins because the HG is part of the Move Action and the move action ends the second you fail. However other folks are telling me I'm wrong but I don't see why???
Re: Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wro
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:21 pm
by sann0638
Hypno wins, though couldn't tell you why!
Re: Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wro
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:28 am
by Alamar
Can anyone clarify where my interpretation is wrong???
Re: Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wro
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:09 am
by Khail
I'm not sure where the confusion is... you can hypno-gaze at the end of a move action. Tentacles causes your move action to end.
It's as simple as that...
Re: Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wro
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:50 am
by Digger Goreman
Khail wrote:I'm not sure where the confusion is... you can hypno-gaze at the end of a move action. Tentacles causes your move action to end.
It's as simple as that...
With your rephrasing, I have to agree.... I was on the fence till then, and I think it has to do with considering the HG as integral with the Move Action.... When I mentally separate them, it becomes much clearer....
Thanks Khail!
Re: Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wro
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:25 pm
by Alamar
Khail wrote:I'm not sure where the confusion is... you can hypno-gaze at the end of a move action. Tentacles causes your move action to end.
It's as simple as that...
So you're saying that [in effect] that Hypno-Gaze is something that you can do after your declared MOVE ACTION is over ... right??? Note Tentacles not only stops you from moving but it also immediately ends your MOVE ACTION.
I was under the understanding that Hypno-Gaze was something that you did during your MOVE ACTION after you have opted to stop moving your figure further. Note I was thinking that because you stopped moving your guy further that didn't necessarily end your MOVE ACTION thus leaving room to get the Hypno-Gaze in just before the end of your MOVE ACTION.
UGGG ... Will I ever get the entire game down perfectly?!??!??
Re: Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wro
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:39 pm
by Khail
Hypno Gaze is used "at the end of his Move Action on an opposing player who is in an adjacent square."
Tentacles: "If the result is 5 or less, then the moving player is held firm, and his Action ends immediately."
The interaction between these two skills is pretty cut and dried. Tentacles ends the move action, hypno gaze is used at the end of the move action. There's no contradiction. Those quotes were taken from the skill descriptions in the CRP.
Re: Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wro
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:10 pm
by alternat
Khail wrote:Hypno Gaze is used "at the end of his Move Action on an opposing player who is in an adjacent square."
Tentacles: "If the result is 5 or less, then the moving player is held firm, and his Action ends immediately."
The interaction between these two skills is pretty cut and dried. Tentacles ends the move action, hypno gaze is used at the end of the move action. There's no contradiction. Those quotes were taken from the skill descriptions in the CRP.
I still don't understand if you think that HG can be used, or not.
Re: Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wro
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:19 pm
by Khail
Yes, it can be used. The if you read the rules, there's no "think" - the rules tell you exactly how the skills interact. You're clouding the issue with preconceived notions that are extraneous to the issue. Just read the skill descriptions.
Re: Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wro
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:19 pm
by Alamar
Khail wrote:Hypno Gaze is used "at the end of his Move Action on an opposing player who is in an adjacent square."
Tentacles: "If the result is 5 or less, then the moving player is held firm, and his Action ends immediately."
The interaction between these two skills is pretty cut and dried. Tentacles ends the move action, hypno gaze is used at the end of the move action. There's no contradiction. Those quotes were taken from the skill descriptions in the CRP.
I disagree ... there is possibility for confusion even with native English speakers.
If I tell you "I pay my bill at the end of June" you would certainly interpret that to mean that I pay the bill DURING the month of June.
Applying the same logic to "At the end of his move action" as you did to "at the end of June" you can easily interpret that the Hypno Gaze occurs during the Move Action after the movement is over. Note I consider "movement" and "Move Action" to be separate things. Plenty of room for confusion with Tentacles.
Personally I'd have been happier if Tentacles would have been reworded so it stops all "movement" but you may continue your "Action" from the square you're in. I.E. you can't move further but would be free to Pass, Handoff, Gaze, etc. from the square you are currently in to any otherwise valid targets.
Re: Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wro
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:07 pm
by Khail
Khail wrote:You're clouding the issue with preconceived notions that are extraneous to the issue. Just read the skill descriptions.
Re: Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wro
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:31 pm
by Alamar
Khail wrote:Khail wrote:You're clouding the issue with preconceived notions that are extraneous to the issue. Just read the skill descriptions.
Would you care to point out preconceived notions???
What is wrong with interpretting "at the end of his move action" and "at the end of June" in exactly the same way??
By my reading you can't use Hypno because it fires during the Action [at the end of it] ... Tentacles cancels the Action so you don't get to choose to Gaze.
On a side note having players do things when it's not their action [and they just took it] seems quite odd.
Re: Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wro
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:38 pm
by Dzerards
I got to say I'm with Alamar on this one.
It says "The player may use HG at the end of his move action...", not 'after his move action has ended'. As Alamar said, if someone said they were going to pay me at the end of the month, I would expect them to pay me that month, not after the month had ended. It is the same with passing and hand-offs, you do the pass or hand off at the end of the action.
Therefore Tentacles wins, cause even though HG is at the end of the action it is still part of the action.
Re: Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wro
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:35 pm
by Digger Goreman
When anyone starts bringing in real life, and starts arguing semantics, the beards come out!
Re: Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wro
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:42 pm
by Dzerards
But arguing semantics is the best form of arguing!
