Diving Tackle and rerolled Dodges

[daloonieshaman]

Ahh it all makes sense now. Your data is editions old. Accept the latest version of DT with a smile.

[Wanchor]

a mute point

Moot point.

[Sizzler]

My apologies, Your Highness!

[dode74]

a mute point

Moot point.

Hush now

[Piousman]

I thought it was called a cow-point (aka in Moo point)?!?

- Piousman

[DoubleSkulls]

That's a Joey joke (Moo point).

[Duke Luthor Von Hawkfire]

Hello everybody, I have a doubt for the treatment of the diving tackle skill.
It´s clear that the -2 modifier affects to both rolls, the dodge roll and the rerolled dodge roll. But it is not clear to me the exact sequence of play. Imagine a 3AG player tries to dodge to an empty square and the result of the dice is a 3. What happens now first? The reroll dodge roll or the diving tackle action? I mean, the diving tackle player has to be placed prone before the reroll dodge roll or after the reroll dodge roll?

Thank you.

[Darkson]

In your example, the defender needs to use DT to cause the dodge to fail. The dodging player now declares the reroll, but still has the -2 in effect. Once the Dodge is completed (pass or failed), the DT player is used Prone.

[Duke Luthor Von Hawkfire]

So it is possible to have the diving tackle player prone and the player trying to dodge standing? It seems strange.
I thought you have to decide to use diving tackle or not after the dodge has been resolved, that is, after all rolls for dodge has been made. The sequence would be:
- The player trying to dodge rolls for dodge.
- The player trying to dodge decide if he uses dodge skill roll or reroll.
- The player with diving tackle decides if he uses diving tackle skill.

[DoubleSkulls]

Darkson is correct.

Human catcher dodges away into no TZ

Dodge 3 - success
Use Diving Tackle
Reroll
Dodge 5 - success
DT placed prone
Catcher keeps moving.

[Duke Luthor Von Hawkfire]

But in the last rulebook review, the diving tackle skill says:

Once the dodge is resolved but before any armour roll for
the opponent (if needed), the Diving Tackle Player is Placed Prone in the
square vacated by the dodging player but do not make an Armour or
Injury roll for the Diving Tackle player.

"Once the dodge is resolved" I think means "after all dodge rolls have meen made".

I give another example:
Imagine you want to push a player out of the pith. The player is at two squares of the bound. Your player has frenzy and the opponent has dodge. You roll the dice and the result is "defender stumbles". Now you have to decide to use reroll or not before asking the opponent if he uses dodge or not. I mean, you have to decide the block dice result before the defender decides to use dodge skill or not in order to avoid get out of the pitch. I think is the same example.
Where in the rulebook says that you have to declare the use of diving tackle before the use of dodge skill reroll or a team reroll?
Thanks.

[DoubleSkulls]

I think you are missing that you need to make an explicit decision to use DT, which is influenced by the current result of the dodge.

Human catcher dodges away into no TZ
Dodge 2 - fail
Reroll
Dodge 4 - success
Use Diving Tackle - dodge is now a fail
DT placed prone
Catcher fails over in target square, roll Av

Human catcher dodges away into no TZ
Dodge 4 - success
Use Diving Tackle - dodge is now a fail
Reroll
Dodge 4 - fail still
DT placed prone
Catcher fails over in target square, roll Av

Human catcher dodges away into no TZ
Dodge 6 - success
Catcher keeps moving...

Human catcher dodges away into no TZ
Dodge 1 - fail
Reroll
Dodge 1 - fail
Catcher fails over in target square, roll Av

[Duke Luthor Von Hawkfire]

I understand what you mean but the point is who has to decide first. I don´t understand why the DT player has to decide before the dodging player.

I give you another example:
You block a player with side step. The block dice result is a push.

Two options:
Option 1:
Attacker throws the dice and the result is a push.
The defender chooses the square to be pushed to.
Once the attacker has seen the square the defender chooses, the attacker decide to use reroll.
Defender moves back his player.
Attacker rerolls the blocking dice and resolves the new situation.

Option 2:
Attacker throws the dice and the result is a push.
Attacker decides or not to use reroll to throw again the blocking dice.
Resolve the new blocking dice result.

I think the option 2 is the correct way of playing. If option 2 is correct, why not in the case of DT and dodge?
What I mean is that there are sometimes that your roll is potentially a fail and you have to decide the using of a reroll without knowing what your opponent is going to do. In the cases you mention, I agree with all except this case:

Human catcher dodges away into no TZ
Dodge 4 - success
Use Diving Tackle - dodge is now a fail
Reroll
Dodge 4 - fail still
DT placed prone
Catcher fails over in target square, roll Av

In this case, why the defender has to say the use of diving tackle first???
The attacker knows that despite the roll is a 4, it is a potential fail. Like the side step example I mentioned above.

I add you another situation. The more strange for me:

Human catcher dodges away into no TZ
Dodge 4 - success
Use Diving Tackle - dodge is now a fail
Reroll
Dodge 6 - success
DT placed prone
Catcher keeps moving...

I can´t understand that if the first dodge roll is before the DT player decides to use DT or not, why the rerolled dodge roll is not before the DT player decides to use it or not.
Do you understand what I mean?

Thank you again.

[Darkson]

I agree with all except this case:

Human catcher dodges away into no TZ
Dodge 4 - success
Use Diving Tackle - dodge is now a fail
Reroll
Dodge 4 - fail still
DT placed prone
Catcher fails over in target square, roll Av

In this case, why the defender has to say the use of diving tackle first???
The attacker knows that despite the roll is a 4, it is a potential fail.

Because it's not a FAIL until DT is used - the dodging player has PASSED the Dodge roll unless DT is used.

The is no "potential" use of DT, if a Dodge is passed, then you can use DT to make it fail. You don't say, "you'd better reroll, because I might use DT", you say "I'll use DT to make you fail, make a reroll".

[Corvidius]

I understand what you mean but the point is who has to decide first. I don´t understand why the DT player has to decide before the dodging player.

I give you another example:
You block a player with side step. The block dice result is a push.

Two options:
Option 1:
Attacker throws the dice and the result is a push.
The defender chooses the square to be pushed to.
Once the attacker has seen the square the defender chooses, the attacker decide to use reroll.
Defender moves back his player.
Attacker rerolls the blocking dice and resolves the new situation.

Option 2:
Attacker throws the dice and the result is a push.
Attacker decides or not to use reroll to throw again the blocking dice.
Resolve the new blocking dice result.

I think the option 2 is the correct way of playing. If option 2 is correct, why not in the case of DT and dodge?
What I mean is that there are sometimes that your roll is potentially a fail and you have to decide the using of a reroll without knowing what your opponent is going to do. In the cases you mention, I agree with all except this case:

Human catcher dodges away into no TZ
Dodge 4 - success
Use Diving Tackle - dodge is now a fail
Reroll
Dodge 4 - fail still
DT placed prone
Catcher fails over in target square, roll Av

In this case, why the defender has to say the use of diving tackle first???
The attacker knows that despite the roll is a 4, it is a potential fail. Like the side step example I mentioned above.

I add you another situation. The more strange for me:

Human catcher dodges away into no TZ
Dodge 4 - success
Use Diving Tackle - dodge is now a fail
Reroll
Dodge 6 - success
DT placed prone
Catcher keeps moving...

I can´t understand that if the first dodge roll is before the DT player decides to use DT or not, why the rerolled dodge roll is not before the DT player decides to use it or not.
Do you understand what I mean?

Thank you again.

Um because that's the way the rules are written and otherwise Diving Tackle would cause Turnovers without being used which is just ridiculous. Sidestep doesn't cause a turnover.