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 Post subject: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:14 am 
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So I got to thinking about skaven line rats and after getting a Kick linerat as a priority, normally I default to Wrestle and go for Guard on doubles. After I tried a league with the Skaven and got almost a full complement of Guard linerats (!) but ones that lacked any real mobility I thought I might be onto something....

I was thinking of taking Fend as the first skill they get rather than wrestle or block even. I understand that wrestle and block defend the rats but after only a couple of blocks they tend to stun or get put off the field. In the long run Wrestle or Block doesn't really defend them that much at all other than keeping them alive on a double down result. Without dodge they still go down pretty easy to your average player, even those without Block.

I also like Fend for the long term because on a second skill (assuming they survive that long) if you get the double for Guard, it makes them a little more maneuverable since Fend should hopefully keep tacklezones of them enough for them to maneuver into position to maximise the Guard. Either that or they just continue with Wrestle as the second skill and become extremely annoying, useful liners.

The other thing i was thing I was thinking about for Fend as a first choice is for long term thinking and keeping those rats alive long enough to get to that second skill. Assuming players aren't blitzing your fendrats or pushing them into other players to be blocked a second time, they are only going to be blocked once every two turns since they can't be followed into and held in place. Theoretically, because they are taking less blocks, they have more chance staying around until they hit the next skill.

An added bonus of this is that by not being in tacklezones all the time it's more likely for them to have a chance at scoring by having the ball-carrier hand off to them if you really feel the need to level them up rather than doing it with a more competent player like the XP hogging Gutter Runners.

What are your thoughts? Would you generally stick with Wrestle as a first skill or be willing to try out Fend? Or is there another skill that I've missed after Kick?

I haven't had a chance to put the Fendrat approach into action in a long term league just yet but if you try it please let me know how it goes.

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 Post subject: Re: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:28 am 
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I am starting to take fend as a second skill after block or wrestle.


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 Post subject: Re: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:57 pm 
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The thing is that Block or Wrestle make you much better at hitting back, where Fend only helps protect them when getting hit.

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 Post subject: Re: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Block or Wrestle also protect you against a both down result. I would suggest Block or Wrestle first, and then Fend as second skill.

The other consideration is whether you want to put precious Linerats with skills on the line of scrimmage at all. It may be preferable to just put rookies there.

Hope that helps.

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 Post subject: Re: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:45 am 
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I normally run out of rookies ;)

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 Post subject: Re: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:26 pm 
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line-fend works better with goblins/halflings/snotlings
For line rat (If I wasted time to skill them up) would be a good combination of block/wrestle/tackle
skaven fend gutterrunners!!!

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 Post subject: Re: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:22 am 
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DoubleSkulls wrote:
The thing is that Block or Wrestle make you much better at hitting back, where Fend only helps protect them when getting hit.


True that, though I find myself either too outmuscled very quickly to the point where it's a struggle to get a two dicer on folks unless my Stormvermin are nearby with guard. Normally my linerats are just manmarking or piling in to help others get assists. I generally get 2-3 solid two dice blocks in a turn and I hope to ensure those are with positionals who are good at it.

Smeborg wrote:
Block or Wrestle also protect you against a both down result. I would suggest Block or Wrestle first, and then Fend as second skill.

The other consideration is whether you want to put precious Linerats with skills on the line of scrimmage at all. It may be preferable to just put rookies there.

Hope that helps.


It does thanks - it also raises the point that if my fendrats are up against opposing linos with block, they might choose the both down as often as possible to keep the rats at their feet thus negating the fend. Norse and Dwarves are hard matchups for early skaven already and fendrats probably don't help much with those matchups.

daloonieshaman wrote:
line-fend works better with goblins/halflings/snotlings
For line rat (If I wasted time to skill them up) would be a good combination of block/wrestle/tackle
skaven fend gutterrunners!!!


Fend is a doubles skill for stunties. I prefer other doubles on those - like block, dirty player and maybe even guard or sure hands.

I don't think levelling up your linerats is a waste of time and often I simply try to get them just 1 or 2 SPPs so that if an MVP comes their way they can get a skill. It's especially important to get one linerat their first skill for kick in a league format.

As for gutter runners, there are so many ways to level them up that I'm not even going to begin discussing how to level them. It's the linerats I want to try experimenting with as I think the fend first might have some merit and it's not something I've seen commonly done before.

If anyone tries the fend idea on their linerats I'd be keen to hear how they got on.

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 Post subject: Re: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:25 am 
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DoubleSkulls wrote:
I normally run out of rookies ;)


Do you dodge your line rats away from tacklezones or man mark where required? What is it you do to keep them alive and well skilled?

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 Post subject: Re: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:14 am 
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DoubleSkulls wrote:
I normally run out of rookies ;)

You're doing well. I tend to run out of Linerats altogether.

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 Post subject: Re: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:40 am 
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Shaheen wrote:
True that, though I find myself either too outmuscled very quickly to the point where it's a struggle to get a two dicer on folks


Block or Wrestle makes 1 dice blocks reasonably attractive in a lot of instances. I tend to go to 4 rerolls so that helps too.

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 Post subject: Re: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:44 am 
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Shaheen wrote:
DoubleSkulls wrote:
I normally run out of rookies ;)


Do you dodge your line rats away from tacklezones or man mark where required? What is it you do to keep them alive and well skilled?


Well.... its very situational for me. I'll generally decide either to attack or hold back each turn based on how I perceive the chances of success and the overall state of the drive (e.g. if I've still got them I'll throw a lot more bodies in the way at the end of a half).

So if its a "hold back" turn I'll normally do my normal moves, blitz someone, then start moving line rats away from markers. Fend can help there. Depending on the situation "attack" may mean I've got a shot at the ball carrier without a lot of commitment, but moving line rats away from danger doesn't get prioritised, so if the turn does not go well they may get stuck. Other times I'm trying to apply pressure in which case they may just swarm the cage.

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 Post subject: Re: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Maybe a mixture of Wrestle Fend and Wrestle Dauntless (sorry puny 50k players knocking over 3 times their value is funny).

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 Post subject: Re: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Good shout, I hadn't originally thought of. I'm in the TAKE THE RAT OGRE camp so I don't normally use dauntless.

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 Post subject: Re: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:12 pm 
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I'd just leave dauntless for my gutter runners.
If a linerat can get a block on a st4/5 player great but I'm not going to skill them for it.
Wrestle/fend sounds fun but I am doing well to get a single skill on a linerat.

Also dauntless Gutter > a rat ogre as you can easily add stripball/wrestle/block/tackle/etc


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 Post subject: Re: A Case for 1st Pick Fend on Skaven Linerats
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:49 pm 
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I don't like the Rat Ogres, but I tend to ignore Dauntless on anyone other than Gutter Runners. Bashing isn't the way I try to win.

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