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 Post subject: Skave Mutations
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:13 pm 
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hi all, just a quick question. the league i run has had a few but very small and slight tweaks. the biggest changes was, Dwarf Blockers come with wrestle rather than Block, and the Troll Slayers come with Juggernaut rather than Block. the next big change was Skaven and this is were (i'm not so sure) if i have an issue. We've allowed Skaven to gain mutations on a normal roll, so they don't need doubles. we tried this because the coach went through an entire season without a single mutation, (unlucky sod even lost 1-2 to my Norse for the Chaos Cup. However, we have started our next torny and his team are playing with a difference. we have been playing for 15 years, and to be honest, he hasn't chained his tactics that much as he is so used to playing with in a way that mutations are a bonus, now he tells its a much harder choice than it is choosing for Nurgle or Chaos. the only point i said as was, after the Skaven play test is over at the end of the season, if we keep the skaven that way, then its only fair that the Chaos Dwarfs do as well., Has anyone tried Skaven with mutation access from the get go, or Chaos Dwarf for that matter. i mean even their background says they can turn into Minotaurs!!!


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 Post subject: Skave Mutations
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:49 pm 
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I saw the thread on tackle as well, mate. Small changes quickly add up.

FWIW, while there are a number of things I'd like to see introduced, dropped or changed to existing rules or rosters, in our league we have stripped right back on house rules and are now back to straight CRP with chosen MVP (though the Khorne and Apes rosters are activated too).

Making tweaks like your dwarf, werefwolf and skaven rewrites is a slippery slope; and the simple answer is that if your friend wants to play skaven with mutation on normals, he should play Underworld or Chaos Pact, not change the Skaven roster to suit.

In our league the idea is that everyone gets enjoyment out of greater variation in opposing coaches and teams; we just feel that house rule heavy leagues cause too much division and debate, and present a barrier to entry for new players.

I'm not saying you shouldn't house rule - this site has an active house rule forum, after all - just that you should take great care when doing so, particularly when you start changing teams' playstyles. IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: Skave Mutations
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:29 am 
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Again, dually noted and thanks. Just that BB is such a great game and gives you the freedom to mess about and change or tweak things. TBH, all our play testing is done over short leagues so, as you so rightly pointed out, as to not break the flow as changes will effect long term league and team play and development. As in your league, the only rule change was the freedom of the MVP and using the 3rd edition fouling and apothecary system. we prefer it, its more exciting. all teams are the same apart from the ones mentioned previously. Also i revert the necro/norse werewolves back to their original stats, what about the dwarf changes on the skills, can i have your thoughts on that please?


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 Post subject: Re: Skave Mutations
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:28 am 
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bruce888 wrote:
Again, dually noted and thanks. Just that BB is such a great game and gives you the freedom to mess about and change or tweak things. TBH, all our play testing is done over short leagues so, as you so rightly pointed out, as to not break the flow as changes will effect long term league and team play and development. As in your league, the only rule change was the freedom of the MVP and using the 3rd edition fouling and apothecary system. we prefer it, its more exciting. all teams are the same apart from the ones mentioned previously. Also i revert the necro/norse werewolves back to their original stats, what about the dwarf changes on the skills, can i have your thoughts on that please?


I think it makes dwarves much weaker (especially the block to wrestle change) and it is a bit sad as they're not a top tier team at high TV IMO.
Skavens on the other hand are already on the verge of being broken, my feeling is with this change, you may have crossed the line ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Skave Mutations
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:55 pm 
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the.tok wrote:
I think it makes dwarves much weaker (especially the block to wrestle change) and it is a bit sad as they're not a top tier team at high TV IMO.
Skavens on the other hand are already on the verge of being broken, my feeling is with this change, you may have crossed the line ;)


Skaven are one of the most brutally efficient teams.

With mutation access on normals they can have a couple of clawpomb blitzers, plus easily get at least 1 horns gutter as a ball hunter. Gutters are easy to skill with normal rolls but get even better with some stats or the odd double.
The rest of the teams can be fodder linerats and that’s pretty much all they’ll need so can keep their TV really low and take a wizard every game.

Nerfing Dwarfs is lame as well, people need to learn how to playa against them or keep teams long enough to get a decent TV. They really aren’t that great.

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