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 Post subject: Wizard and prone players
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:39 am 
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Are prone players affected by wizard spells?

For Lightning Bolt, do I roll 2+ and do I need a 4+ to affect them on a Fireball if they are already prone or do I roll AV directly?

Fred

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard and prone players
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:02 am 
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I know that the Cyanide game chokes on prone players, but that doesn't make it right.

Not having the rulebook in front of me, I would speculate that it should still work the same way. Keeping a wardancer down or something like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard and prone players
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:00 am 
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Rulebook says "standing", both fot Fireball & Bolt. So prone are safe.


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard and prone players
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:29 pm 
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Rulebook says, precisely :

Quote:
Choose a target square anywhere on the pitch. Roll one dice to hit each standing player (from either team) that is either in the target square or a square adjacent to it. If the 'to hit' roll is a 4 or more then the target is Knocked Down. If it is a 3 or less he manages to dodge the fireball’s blast. Make an Armour roll (and possible Injury as well) for any player that is Knocked Down as if they had been Knocked Down by a player with the Mighty Blow skill. If a player on the moving team is Knocked Down by a fireball, then the moving team does not suffer a turnover unless the player was carrying the ball at the time.


So, one could understand many things.
Including that standing players have an advantage over knocked down players : they can dodge the fireball (4+ is a hit)
Then prone players automaticaly get an armor roll because they can't dodge the fireball.

And you can add this post dating from 2001 :

GalakStarscraper wrote:
Quote:
6. "Can a Fireball hit a prone/stunned player in the blast radius. The wording of the spell can be easily read to believe this is true. However it very vague in both directions. Text needs cleaned up to make sure its clear how it works."

To me, it's 100% clear, both from the text and from common sense, that it can hit them.


Chet and I agree with you ... but I've had multiple players get quite aggressive telling us that we are plain nuts for that viewpoint. Which means its a legit question for clarification.


One could also quote the Bomber skill :

Quote:
When the bomb finally does explode any player in the same square is Knocked Down, and players in adjacent squares are Knocked Down on a roll of 4+. Players can be hit by a bomb and treated as Knocked Down even if they are already Prone or Stunned. Make Armour and Injury rolls for any players Knocked Down by the bomb.



What ? The bomber would be more powerfull than a fireball ?
That would seem very strange...

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard and prone players
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:03 pm 
Super Star
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ssb wrote:
And you can add this post dating from 2001 :
GalakStarscraper wrote:
Quote:
6. "Can a Fireball hit a prone/stunned player in the blast radius. The wording of the spell can be easily read to believe this is true. However it very vague in both directions. Text needs cleaned up to make sure its clear how it works."

To me, it's 100% clear, both from the text and from common sense, that it can hit them.

Chet and I agree with you ... but I've had multiple players get quite aggressive telling us that we are plain nuts for that viewpoint. Which means its a legit question for clarification.

As hesitant as I am to argue against Galak, I don't think that quote refers to the current ruleset. As I read it, the rules specifically apply only to standing players.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard and prone players
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:10 pm 
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I agree, standing players only. And using an out-dated ruleset to support your viewpoint is rules-lawyering of the worst kind.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard and prone players
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:17 pm 
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Darkson wrote:
I agree, standing players only. And using an out-dated ruleset to support your viewpoint is rules-lawyering of the worst kind.

lol I am not rule-lawyering of any kind.
It's kind of the only reference there is on the website (or anywhere).
There is not much discussion around this aspect of the rules.

Though I find it absurd that prone players aren't touched by the fireball, I couldn't care less about the result of this discussion for my "personnal needs".
If it is ruled one way or the other. Let it be...

Some clarification could be done though...


To go on about the problems that can occur with the description of the lightning bolt and the fireball spells...

Quote:
Pick a standing player anywhere on the pitch, and roll one dice. If the score is a 2 or higher, then he has been hit by the lightning bolt. If the roll is a 1 then he manages to dodge out of the way. A player hit by a lightning bolt is Knocked Down and must make an Armour roll (and possible Injury as well) as if hit by a player with the Mighty Blow skill.


Doest it mean that you could cast a ligthing bolt on your ball carrier and NOT suffer from a turnover ?
Or is it something that slipped from the description ? (maybe the impact of a lightning bolt is so quick and so discreet that the game would not register it... ^^)
Yeah, I know, it seems absurd, but as long as the spell doesn't clearly say : "pick an opposing player"...

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard and prone players
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:03 pm 
Super Star
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ssb wrote:
Doest it mean that you could cast a ligthing bolt on your ball carrier and NOT suffer from a turnover ?
Or is it something that slipped from the description ? (maybe the impact of a lightning bolt is so quick and so discreet that the game would not register it... ^^)
Yeah, I know, it seems absurd, but as long as the spell doesn't clearly say : "pick an opposing player"...

No, the standard Turnover rules apply here by default. If you use Lightning Bolt on your own player (ball carrier or otherwise) and successfully knock them down, then it is a turnover.
Fireball has an exception to this rule, which overrides the normal turnover rules, allowing you to knockdown your own player without a turnover as long as they are not the ball carrier.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard and prone players
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:02 pm 
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New rules changed the wording to only effect standing players. I honestly don't remember the reasoning ... but it was definitely changed to not effect prone/stunned players.

Tom

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard and prone players
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:16 pm 
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Thanks for all these answers ! :)

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