ALT3RD Rulebook

[Shteve0]

Sure, ok, though I don't know if it would be strictly worse, your top players get much better protection now. No worries if they are slightly weaker though - since most of the better teams are getting dragged through the dirt in power level, I'm comfortable with an arguable slight knock to Khemri, who don't strike me as being thematically top level.

The more we talk about this, the more interested I think I'd be in a vastly weakened roster set. I feel like stripping out a lot of essential skills would make developing players more interesting and challenging. May just be me, though!

On the subject of that, here are some ideas for the non-core rosters, since this isn't purely about cutting other teams out, but instead refocussing on the themes of the old 2ed teams. It makes sense that more would be added in third (I mean, they were, after all).

AMAZON TEAMS
Long ago, driven by a desire for adventure, the Valkyries of the Norse settlement in South Amorica sailed away from their men-folk and founded a colony deep within the estuary of the river Amaxon. Now these ferocious warriors have taken to the Blood Bowl pitch – and Nuffle save those who dare play against them!

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0-16  Human Linewoman  60,000	6	3	3	7	Dodge	          GA / SP
0-2	Human Thrower	 70,000	6	3	3	7	Dodge, Pass	    GAP / S
0-4	Human Catcher	 70,000	8	2	3	7	Dodge, Catch	   GA / SP
0-2	Human Valkyrie	90,000	6	3	3	8	Dodge, Stand Firm GAS / P

0-8 Rerolls (50,000 each), 0-1 Apothecary (50,000 each). No special rules

CHAOS DWARF TEAMS
Chaos Dwarfs are the twisted descendants of Dwarf explorers who have been terribly affected by the forces of Chaos, turning them into evil, self-centred creatures that love playing Blood Bowl. In many ways, then, they haven’t changed at all! Chaos Dwarfs are not very numerous and make great use of sneaky Hobgoblin slaves to perform all kinds of tasks, including playing on their Blood Bowl teams.

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0-16	Hobgoblin Lineman	40,000	6	3	3	7	None	G	ASP
0-4	Dwarf Blocker	     70,000	4	3	2	9	Block, Tackle, Thick Skull	GS	APM
0-2	Dwarf Bull Centaur  130,000   6	4	2	9	Sprint, Sure Feet, Thick Skull	GS	AP
0-1	Minotaur Blitzer	 150,000	5	5	2	8	Loner, Frenzy, Horns, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Wild Animal	S	GAPM		

0-8 Rerolls (70,000 each), 0-1 Apothecary (50,000 each). No special rules

NORSE TEAMS
Norse teams have a well deserved reputation for ferocity both on and off the playing pitch. The Norse - along with Beastmen from the frozen forests of the north - that take up Blood Bowl are truly unedifying specimens, interested only in beer, women and song off the playing pitch, and beer, women and bloody carnage while on it!

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0-16	Human Renegade	60,000	6	3	3	8	Frenzy	GP	AS
0-4	Beastman Runner	80,000	6	3	3	7	Regeneration, Horns, Juggernaut	GAS	P
0-2	Human Blitzer	  90,000	6	3	3	8	Horns, Juggernaut, Frenzy	GS	AP
0-1	Yhetee Blitzer	180,000	6	5	1	8	Loner, Wild Animal, Claw, Frenzy, Horns, Juggernaut, Regeneration	S	GAP
							     		
0-8 Rerolls (70,000 each), 0-1 Apothecary (50,000 each). No special rules

SLANN TEAMS
The Slann team is an ancient race of space travellers stranded on our planets many ages ago. While most Slann prefer to become fat and lazy lording over the Kroks, a few of younger and more energetic members enjoy travelling the realm and playing Blood Bowl. While the Slann have no passing game to speak of, their ability to leap, dive, and intercept are second to none.

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0-16	Slann Lineman	60,000	6	3	3	8	Leap, Very Long Legs	G	ASP
0-4	Slann Catcher	 80,000	7	2	4	7	Diving Catch, Leap, Very Long Legs 	GA	SP
0-4	Slann Blitzer	100,000	7	3	3	8	Diving Tackle, Jump Up, Leap, Very Long Legs	GAS	P

0-8 Rerolls (50,000 each), 0-1 Apothecary (50,000 each). No special rules

[Juriel]

The more we talk about this, the more interested I think I'd be in a vastly weakened roster set. I feel like stripping out a lot of essential skills would make developing players more interesting and challenging. May just be me, though!

If the skills remain the same as they are now, then everyone will just pick those essential skills (like Block) on first level-up.

You cannot use the regular Chaos Dwarf roster if you're planning to take others down a notch, as they're already top-tier. Easiest nerf would be to limit their Dwarves to 0-4 - it doesn't look like much, but it forces them to use more Hobgobbos, which makes them a lot more fragile overall.

[Shteve0]

Funnily enough, had thought exactly that only today. Done - post edited.

As for the skill grab, I don't think that's an issue, so long as it pushes the full house set of skills back a step for the power players. Amazon blitzers now don't get blodge guard til 16SPPs each, as opposed to 6. Any past the first two need doubles rolls. Wardancers are 16 from blodge, dwarves are 16 from blackle (currently 0 each).

I guess the idea is that, with fewer key skills and no increase in available skill slots, those super player types arrive later, more infrequently and with more diversity. I like those dilemmas that go "I need guard, I need tackle, but I'd like some strip ball or kick soon and I don't have many options". I want that six skill wardancer with +AG to have to give up something else in order to accomodate it. Does that make sense?

[Juriel]

It will delay the 'power builds', but it will also decrease the overall variety - less Sidestep, Stand Firm, Grab, etc. Which is more the fault with the skill system itself, since most skills are only so-so, with a few omgpowerful, so you only look at the rest once you have all of the latter.

[Shteve0]

I regularly take all of those skills you mention, as well as fend, kick, kick off return, wrestle, strip ball, tackle, leader, piling on and diving tackle. Block, Dodge, Guard and MB are the cornerstones, of course, and in the first list I may only take a handful accross the team, but there is a little diversity there. Then there are the passing game and bashing game skills and, of course, the mutations, that keep it fun too.

I realise that seems to contradict my own argument, but I guess what I mean is that when a player is already largely developed towards a certain optimal build when you buy them - often at great expense - it's difficult to justify deviation from that path. I like a cleaner canvas that forces toolkit team building.

Edit: probably why I love 'zons!

[Hitonagashi]

I realise I might be in a minority here Steve, but I think you've powered Zons up.

Swopping Block for SF (which isn't that major a difference) and giving them A access for the same price is quite big!

I would totally give each of those Blodge/SF/DT. That would be horrible at 16 SPP to position against, and it's one thing you can't do as easily at the moment.

[Shteve0]

I can see Blodge/SS/DT on a couple of linos (31SPP, 120k), certainly. Probably not the blitzers, though (renamed for removed block) - there's only two of them, and you need guard somewhere on the team. Blodge/Guard/SF at 16 SPP (130k) is the same as now, though you can only take two of these, either ruling out a killer build completely (PO, JU, MB) or costing you a guard/SF in the process. The linewomen are bumped up 10k apiece too - partly for that A access, partly because I feel dodge is slightly undercosted at only 10k over a hob.

In short I really wouldn't want to be relying on doubles for guard, particularly as I'm down from four S-access to two, and up to four roster pics are now ST2. Bearing that in mind, do you still feel they're bumped up? in the short term, I'd have thought certainly not, and all being equal your blitzers are not the primary scorers here (no block, catchers are MA8). I don't buy that SF is equivalent to block either (even if on the the right player - zon blitzers, as an example - it's amazing), but I'll let that go

[Hitonagashi]

My bad, missed you'd dropped them to 0-2...you are right, that makes a huge difference . With 4 it would have been broken!

[Shteve0]

Lol, my sarcasmometer is broken right now, so I'll take that at face value and assume you like it

Any thoughts on my suggestion of the Norse roster evaporating and being replaced with the Khorne one? My logic is that it's not a bad roster at all, and presents it own challenges, but needs to be refocussed to explain some of the more abhorrent differences in player - why the herald doesn't have regen, for example. The CRP Norse roster is also very strong off the bat and relies on lots of S access, both things I'm trying to avoid. Finally, it also always struck me that Norse teams are a good place for spam P-access and costly rerolls, two things that go hand in hand in the cyanide roster.

[Juriel]

Any thoughts on my suggestion of the Norse roster evaporating and being replaced with the Khorne one?

Just that Horns don't fit a Human Blitzer too good. You'd have to find something to replace them with, but they're just so useful.

[Shteve0]

Any thoughts on my suggestion of the Norse roster evaporating and being replaced with the Khorne one?

Just that Horns don't fit a Human Blitzer too good. You'd have to find something to replace them with, but they're just so useful.

I know what you mean, though. I guess I just figured that the lack of regen splits the character of the two player types - demons don't sit right with me, so Bloodletters went to snow beast types, and then the other player type had to be different in recognition of the lack of Regen. I figured it might be okay to push an angle of human blitzers using their horned helmets more - but that's stupid, isn't it?

I'm not really sure what my beef is with the actual Norse roster, by the way. I'd like to claim it's simply difficult to scale back to the power level I'm going for without removing a lot of identity, but in truth I feel like the runners, blitzers, throwers and even the Ulfs lack coherency and favour too linear a build pattern (purely a personal opinion, of course - I know some who adore the Norse roster).