B-r-e-t-t-o-n-i-a-n-s, really why not?

[Dark Duke]

I am neither against, nor in favor of adding a Brettonian team, but I would like to have plasmoid's Bret roster being official, even with another background. I think it's well balanced and different to the rest of teams.

My question to those that don't want to add a Brettonian team is, would you mind adding plasmoid's Bret roster if it had a background that you liked?

[Danzeru]

On topic, you also forgot Amazons as a human team.

Thanks Ullis

[Darkson]

I am missing an option to vote, hell yes we need a Brettoian team! very strange to make a poll with 4 choices that are very negative toward the Brits and one choice thats neutral, I meen who cant vote yes to a choice that goes sure if its well designed....

I think a few people mentioned it but there was no "I love it" option in the poll which had me disappointed. Also the poll is a little bit confusing/poorly designed, why not just have yes/no options? People could justify their answers by posting surely? But I digress as this isn't the point of my post.

Probably because the poll is "Brettonians, really why not?", and not "Brettonians, yes or no?" (which is an old poll). I believe arthur is asking why people are against the roster, in which case this poll makes perfect sense.

[burgun824]

My question to those that don't want to add a Brettonian team is, would you mind adding plasmoid's Bret roster if it had a background that you liked?

Hmmmm...maybe. When put that way I might consider it. I do have to admit that I like the challenge and play style that his roster presents.

Having said that I'll try and explain this ridiculous scenario to you folks that "just don't get why we hate it." Now I can't speak for everyone here because it would be egocentric to assume that everyone that hates Bretonnia hates them for the same reason I do. All I can do is offer to you my own personal feelings on this.

Simply put...I hate Bretonnia. I hate the fluff. I hate the concept. This probably stems from my pure disdane for religious zealots in real life, so I'd prefer to keep them out of my fantasy world. Now I understand that their a bunch of you folks out there that seem to have a real affection for this concept. Quite frankly I'm not beyond accepting it if it were approved. There are already a handful of teams in existance that I wish would go away because I don't personally like them but they've been approved and I live with them because I love this game. However, Bretonnians aren't approved yet...so I can go on with my mocking and ridiculing of how stupid of an idea this is for no better reason than I simply can't stand Bretonnians.

I know, I know. It's so immatture to mock and ridicule something just to be a jerk. Well, quite frankly I find getting people wound up about something that they have no real reason to be wound up about rather entertaining.

You know...you Bretonnia fans are alot like the team you so desire. Questing and deffensing your position with such pure zeal. I admire your passion, you should go with that.

[JaM]

Because Bloodbowl =/= Warhammer Fantasy Battle.

It's more a mix of steam-punk, Discworld, and maybe, maybe, a bit of the WHFB-world but a few hundred (if not thousand(s)) years later.
I like it that way. It's like a parrallel universe, that's why we had diegi Marradini with a sugar-cane addiction, an Eric Kantona with his Kantona kick, etc. etc.

The Bret team pulls the BBowl world back from the cool place it now is (or is in) to the current WHFB world. where (as we all know) in 40.000 years from now there will be only grindark...

I want to see Bloodbowl and the Bloodbowlworld run it's own course, away from already established worlds (and fluff) like WHFB and WH40K. The less BB will be mingled with excisting GW worlds, the better it is.

[Warpstone]

My question to those that don't want to add a Brettonian team is, would you mind adding plasmoid's Bret roster if it had a background that you liked?

Great question.

Just a note too: I believe the idea to put Fend on the peasants was drawn from an LRB5 experimental Amazon roster (Amazonions) because it was found to be a pretty nifty spam skill. Not as powerful as block, but handy for an experienced coach. It puts the roster somewhere between Tier 1 and 2, where it was intended to be in terms of competitiveness.

My point? Take the fluff out of the equation and it's hard to dispute the design decisions made with this roster. There are many ideas that Plasmoid floated, we tried, and revised, revised and revised to get to this point.

AFAIK, the Bret roster never made it to the BBRC's LRB6 discussions because Jervis simply didn't like Brets. Before the haters take this as a feather in their caps, let's remember that JJ has almost no involvement with the modern version of BB and is the same designer who insisted Khemri MUST have 4 x ST5 big guys...

The BBRC did a good job to nerf or buff many flawed rosters for LRB6. Some of these rosters have "fluff-iness" that is at best questionable. Yet they are all official, whereas a roster with good design and obvious fluff wasn't even allowed into the LRB5 experimental phase. The Brettonian roster hasn't even been shot down on merit. It didn't even get a chance to build a fanbase like the the Slaan and 2 Pact teams did. The exclusion is arbitrary and makes about as much sense to me as a "Norse Werewolf."

BTW, it's convenient that Blood Bowl is said to be in it's own "steampunk universe" whenever the Brettonian issue comes up. It's also absurd. We don't want BB teams to derive directly anymore from WHFB? So what's next? Does this mean I can finally field a Riders if Rohan team? Oh right, we've already got a human roster...

[burgun824]

How you Bretonnians say, I one more time-a unclog my nose in your direction, sons of a window-dresser! So, you think you could out-clever us sensible folk with your silly knees-bent running about advancing behavior! I wave my private parts at your aunties, you heaving lot of second-hand electric donkey bottom biters.

No chance, Bretonnian bedwetting types. I burst my pimples at you and call your daughter an unrequested silly thing. You tiny-brained wipers of other people's bottoms! Yes, this time and try any more or we fire arrows at the tops of your heads and make castanets out of your testicles already! Ha ha!

[plasmoid]

Keeping it short:
Just for the record - the team that JJ nixed was quite different from the current MMBL one. His reason was that it was just another human team. (4 elf teams, 4 undead teams and 4 chaos teams don't seem to be a problem though).

JaM - I'm not disputing that the WFB-world and BB-world are different. I'm just saying that Bretonnians can be just as spikes & leather as any other species. The Blood Bowl world seems to be filled with SM-equipment wearing Warhammer critters: Orcs, skaven, high elfs, wood elfs, Slayers, Witch Elfs, Gutter Runners, etc.

Cheers
Martin

[JaM]

Plasmoid: I know you know. It was just that the discussion seemd to go to the BB=whfb argument, wich it's clearly not. And I know you know that.

I have no (well, not much ) doubt the roster is well designed. It's just that calling them Brettonians makes them too WHFB for me. And I really like those worlds to stay seperate.

[inkpwn]

Give them a similair style but different name then?

.Knights of valour?

.Paladins?

.Grail seekers?

.sons of the light?

.Protectorate of menoth *giggles*

[burgun824]

Keeping it short:
Just for the record - the team that JJ nixed was quite different from the current MMBL one. His reason was that it was just another human team. (4 elf teams, 4 undead teams and 4 chaos teams don't seem to be a problem though).

I've actually been doing some thought on this while I've been working this afternoon . I've decided based on a previous question about it being "Bretonnians or the roster" coupled with what I've quoted from plasmoid above that I honestly don't have an issue with the roster. I also don't really think that I'd have a problem adding another team either (it would even it out to 4 human teams). I just can't stomach the thought of Bretonnians.

So I asked myself, "Why?"

Answer: "Bretonnians" isn't generic enough for the BB format IMO. It's too specific. Let's take for example all the other rosters in BB. With the lone exception of Nurgle and two half exceptions for Norse and Amazons (I'll explain "half" in a second) all the rosters of BB are based on generic race types. Sure you can break down Elfs into Pro, High, Wood, and Dark but those are still relatively generic types. There's still a good explaination for why those specific types of the same race are represented in a fantasy world. Nurgle is the only team you can specifically point to and say, "That's there because of the WH world with no other reason." And it's still relatively easy to proxy a H.P. Lovecraftian type team in order to make it less specific. Norse and Zons could possibly fall under the same argument, but they're still generic enough where you can see them fitting into a more generic fantasy setting (hence the half exception).

So I present a possible compromise. Let's change the nomenclature to something more generic that better fits into the typical BB format and go from there. Something less specific with more room for interpretation lets say.

EDIT - As I posted this I see that there are a bunch of us on the same page. Could this could turn into a valid discussion for once?

[Dark Duke]

My question to those that don't want to add a Brettonian team is, would you mind adding plasmoid's Bret roster if it had a background that you liked?

Hmmmm...maybe. When put that way I might consider it. I do have to admit that I like the challenge and play style that his roster presents.
Having said that I'll try and explain this ridiculous scenario to you folks that "just don't get why we hate it." [...] You know...you Bretonnia fans are alot like the team you so desire. Questing and deffensing your position with such pure zeal. I admire your passion, you should go with that.

Just to be clear, I'm not a Brettonian fan, I can understand that there's people that dislike/hate their background or just don't want to mix BB with WHFB. I'm fan of plasmoid's roster and I would like to see it made official because I think it adds something new and interesting to the game. The fluff isn't necessary for me and I don't really need a justification to why is a roster designed in a particular way.

I could understand if plasmoid wouldn't want to transform the background of his roster to something different and see if it has general acceptation because his whole point was to build a bretonnian team. But what if it were a Catai team with a japanese-based fluff or some creatures from the deeps of the oceans? I guess I should open another poll to get that info.

[burgun824]

So plasmoid could choose to play it as a Bretonnian team with appropriately represented models...BUT...I could use my human models, or Catai models, or squiggly like beast things from the deep blue sea models. That's what I'm saying. I believe the majority of people don't want to be confined/obligated to using a bunch of froofy colored, feather toting grail seekers for such a unique set of skills. I think it's fine to say the team is based around knights from the royal courts of various human kingdoms or something of that matter, but to label them so specifically is off putting.

[Geoff Watson]

So I asked myself, "Why?"

Answer: Nurgle is the only team you can specifically point to and say, "That's there because of the WH world with no other reason."

And Skaven, Chaos, Chaos Pact, Chaos Dwarf, Underworld, Khemri, and a bunch of positionals.

There is a lot of Warhammer fluff in BB. Not as much as there used to be, but it's obviously based on Warhammer if anyone looks.

Geoff.

[Darkson]

Roster: I wouldn't be against it, but I don't want to play it (it hasn't grabbed my attention).

Keeping it as Bretts: Big NO - Bretts are not distinct enough from Generic humans to need another roster - they're quite happily covered by the human roster. And no way should a "knight" be MV8/AV8.

That said, I'm still not convinced that a rookie MV8/AV8 player should be allowed anyway (but that's an arguement for another thread).