Cheerleaders

Post by **Thadrin** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 9:57 am

A new topic to sperate the discussions on Coaches and Cheeries.

ianwilliams wrote:The idea I had for cheerleader is that each cheerleader adds D6 * 100 to the gate. It seems an appropriate effect (after all why are there cheerleaders at all? to encourage people to go to the games) but doesn't give a good return on investment.

Ian

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 12:01 pm

I like that.
But what I was thinking was that each cheerleader allows you to re roll your lowest gate dice.
Say you threw 10 dice, and got five 1's, you had 3 cheerleaders which could then let you roll three of the 1's again, to try and get the gate a touch higher.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 12:32 pm

Zy-Nox wrote:I like that.
But what I was thinking was that each cheerleader allows you to re roll your lowest gate dice.
Say you threw 10 dice, and got five 1's, you had 3 cheerleaders which could then let you roll three of the 1's again, to try and get the gate a touch higher.

ianwilliam's one:
50 cheerleaders add the gate approximately 17.5K, so doesn't seem like open to abuse. 50TR drop the income table by two units, while 17.5k fans can't lift it even by one.
Which also kind of tells that cheerleaders wouldn't be too useful. But the rule is balanced in the way that it isn't open to abuse.

Zy-Nox's one:
I don't have the time to calculate could this be abused by excessive use of, but maybe someone does the math?

Still, Zy'Nox's version seems maybe a bit more appealing at first glance.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 1:50 pm

I can give you simple odds to show the effects of Zy-Nox's suggestion.

Let's say you have an FF of 12 and 2 cheerleaders. Probability says you will roll (3.5*12)=42k worth of fans with Zy-Nox's suggestion. With his suggestion, you would get to re-rolls the 2 ones that resulted from the 1 in 6 odds ... each of these rolls would add 2.5k worth of fans results in total fans of 47k .... or slightly under a 12% increase in the fans for the game. .... sounds a little high to me.

I'd like the idea more if it was reroll a 1 for every 2 Cheerleaders then you'd only have a 6% increase from the same scenario.

Galak

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 1:59 pm

i don't see why cheerleaders should affect gate... there's more appropriate game mechanics out there...

for years we've had a rule that lets a team roll, once per half, a number of d6 equal to their number of cheerleaders and if any of the die come up '6', they get an immediate reroll... simulates the cheerleaders whipping the crowd into a frenzy and pumping up the players...

...who goes to football games to speculate on the figure of some bit of fluff who looks like an ant from way up here int he upper deck anyway? you can';t make that much from calendar sales at the concessions, can you?

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 1:59 pm

Hmm. Not sure Cheerleaders should affect the gate.

IMO

After all if your going to watch a game do you go to watch the game or the Cheerleaders?

The Cheerleaders job, is to lift the crowd and therefore indirectly lift the team. In BloodBowl terms, this means re-rolls.

So how about something along the lines of:

if you have a Cheerleader, once per game you may roll 2 die, a roll of 12 gives you a free - re-roll for this match only. For every 2 extra cheerleaders in the team add 1 to the roll. In this way only the best cheerleaders should be able to get something extra out of their team, and their effect will be sporadic rather than regular.

Just my 2p etc etc

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:01 pm

Lucien:

looks like you got in just before me.

Damn.

Any way. echo those sentiments

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:08 pm

oh, i disagree with your idea wholeheartedly McD....

Post by **Thadrin** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:38 pm

I rather like Lucien's idea. One reroll isn't unbalancing, but the chance is definately worth investing a few thousand in. Its a simple mechanic that requires a two line addition to the rules.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:38 pm

I personally dislike the idea of cheerleaders providing extra team rerolls - by whatever mechanism.

If the effect of cheerleaders is cheap enought it means teams with expensive rerolls can get access to cheaper rerolls, or if the cheerleaders are expensive its not worth buying cheerleaders, just save your money for rerolls.

By effecting the gate it basically allows teams to use their money to compensate for lower FF - something a coach can't otherwise effect.

Ian

Post by **Thadrin** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:40 pm

"How about, before each kick off, roll a D6 for each cheerleader. For each 6 you roll you may add a point of Fan Factor until the next kick off."

Prefer Luciens versio though.

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:51 pm

lets do the math on those cheerleaders... most coaches in my league who bought them would buy either 6, 10, or 12 over time... on average, any number over 6 should give you a reroll each half, but, being random, i can attest to the fact that they didn't always work out that way, in fact, i once had a run where my 10 didn't generate a reroll in three consecutive games...

so, given that my team had 50k rerolls, and i wasn't maxed out, i decided that i'd buy the ten cheerleaders on the off chance that i could get 2 rerrolls per game instead of 1 for the same cost... but in reality, i didn't keep specific records, but i can tell yo that they probably averaged slightly less than 1 per game... i would have been better off with the regular reroll, and many coaches in th league held this opinion quite firmly...

yes, a few teams here and there will do slightly better with cheerleaders thanks to a combination of good luck and expensive rerolls, but everyone has the same access to cheerleaders, and the same odds of them working, and the same rule that you can only reroll something once...

cheerleaders and assistants definitely are not worth the trouble without some new rules, but the new rules should make a bit of sense... having playtested this one for several years, i can honestly say i never found it to be abusive, and the fact that not all coaches use it shows it was never perceived as a powerful addition...

if you wanted to tone it down a bit and get a rule that was more mathematically balanced, make it once per game and not once per half, that way for an investment of 60k, a high average for a reroll, you get a statistically probable additional reroll per game... but i think that the system needs to be per hal;f so that it statistically possible to better than a regular reroll or else no one will buy cheerleaders, and thus make the game essentially no different...

BoP · Post by **BoP** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:12 pm

How about adding the number of Cheerleaders on both sides to the rolled total for the Gate? Seems simple and easy to me...

NightDragon · Post by **NightDragon** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 3:02 pm

Explain what is wrong with the current Cheerleaders rule? I think I must have missed the point.

Khrage · Post by **Khrage** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 3:28 pm

Our league house rules that for each cheerleader you get to roll a d6 after Gate is tabulated. For each 6 rolled the fame of the cheerleaders generate 1d3k additional gate. We also limit the number of cheerleaders to 8, just like assistant coaches, to avoid potential abuse. We like it, though because we are in the land of the Dallas Cheerleaders we might have a different viewpoint on the draw of cheerleaders to an audience.

For assistant coaches we use them in a similar way, except they generate 1d3 spps at the end of the match per 6 rolled.

So far it has made having cheerleaders and assistant coaches something people bother buying now, without making them absolutely necessary.