Movement cornerwise = 1,5 MA

[stone]

Hi!

We've played Blood Bowl for some years now (I guess we started with 2nd edition) and we usually don't have house rules. The exeption to this is movement rules. In BB a player has always (to my knowledge) been able to move inside a square of squares, i.e. the number of squares according to his MA to any direction. Now, in a 'real life' situation, a player would be able to move inside a circle (in this case a circle of squares). Therefore we have always used a 'cornerwise 1,5 MA' -rule, where you use up 1,5 of your MA if you are going cornerwise as opposed to 1 MA going straight forward or sideways. A bit difficult to describe, but this example might clarify a bit:

|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|6|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|4|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|3|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|1|_|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|X|1|2|3|4|5|6|_|
|_|_|1|2|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|4|5|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|_|6|_|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|

Player X has a MA of 6. I've written down 3 examples of how he could move in a Blood Bowl field. If he goes cornerwise, the first step uses up his MA by 1, the second step cornerwise uses up MA by 2 (i.e. 1,5 on average). In this way a player can move within a round-shaped area, which is closer to a real-life situation than a square area. Yes, it takes some time to calculate, where a player can reach with his MA, but one gets used to it quite easily.

Have any of you used a similar kind of movement house-rules? As I said, this is the only house-rule we use and it has made the game more real-like. Additionally you have to position your players more carefully, because they won't reach quite as far as with current rules. And if a player with MA6 (with the ball) is 6 squares from the opponents end zone, you place one defending player directly on his path, in which case the attacking player cannot reach the end zone without dodgeing or going for it.

Any comments? This has really worked for us.

A

[GalakStarscraper]

I understand it ... just don't understand how it more real-like. In real life I can move diagonally as quickly as I can straight ahead. Now if I change directions during the run ... I agree I slow down, but your example shows a straight line diagonal with this effect.

All in all, I've got enough problems figuring out blocking set up without calculating 1.5 rounded down but not off math in my head.

However ... as I've always said, if its a house rule that your league enjoys. Use it and enjoy it.

Galak

[DoubleSkulls]

Its because the distance is acutally further when you run diagonally.

So a square 1ft x 1ft is acutally ~1.4ft diagonally.

Its a nice idea to better reflect reality - however keeping track of 1/2 moves is quite a lot. Maybe double everyone's MA and then count 2 for sideways moves and 3 for diagonal ones.

Ian

[stone]

Thanks Ian, that is exactly what we're aiming at.

Its because the distance is acutally further when you run diagonally.

So a square 1ft x 1ft is acutally ~1.4ft diagonally.

And if you try it, I assure you, counting squares won't become a problem , after all, BB coaches are quite intelligent, right. Right?

And positioning your players will become even more important with this rule.

A

[Oderus Orungus]

If you wanna get realistic moving Just eliminate the squares on the board, measure all movement and tackle zones with a tape measure.

[Joaquim]

Yes... the maths are right... well, simplier will be doing a field with hexs instead of squares... but...
You know... I don't think it necessary... I think it works right now... even if this could be a good house rule for a change - but I guess the oposing players make the necessary corrections to movement, and I would hate to see the field change....

[Colin]

I would have to agree with OO, for more realistic movement just play like a regular minature game. Use ruler to measure movement, 1 inch/MA, too easy.

[GalakStarscraper]

Better yet play Elfball which use a tape measuring system and has fairly balanced rules and really cool miniatures.

http://www.phigsminiatures.com/elfball/elfballBody.html

Galak

[neoliminal]

D&D uses the following system:

Every second diagonal move cost double.

For example:

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. . . 8 . .
. . 6 . . .
. 5 . . . .
. 4 . . . .
. . 2 . . .
. . . 1 . .
. . . X . .

Takes care of the extra distances traveled without the messy 1.4 rounding thingy. Not sure I'd enjoy playing BB that way...

[tchatter]

But if everyone is playing by the same rules... does it matter?

[Zombie]

A field with hexagons would definitely be a huge improvement, for two reasons.

1. It would be more realistic because distances are the same in any direction.

2. It would look more like real football and rugby, where players often go straight ahead or diagonally, but seldom straight across.

[stone]

As neoliminal said:

Every second diagonal move cost double.

For example:

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. . . 8 . .
. . 6 . . .
. 5 . . . .
. 4 . . . .
. . 2 . . .
. . . 1 . .
. . . X . .

And that is practically the same thing as cost of 1,5 MA diagonally and rounding down. I know, I know, everybody plays the game the way they enjoy it and I shouold probably stop bugging you with this... I think the main reason, we like to play this way is that it doesn't allow you to twist and turn around the defender without a penalty to your movement. As it stands in neoliminals example, with official rules a player moving similarly would have used up only 6 movement points.

Also a field with hexagons sounds kind of intrguing...

A

[Pink Horror]

Galak, you're usually on-the-ball, but your first response to this thread isn't of your usual quality. "I can move diagonally as quickly as I can straight ahead." - What the heck is that supposed to mean?

Do you mean you can face north, and run to the northeast at such a speed that you're moving east as fast as you're going north, and you're going in both directions as fast as you would normally run if you were to run straight ahead?

Oh, maybe you mean that when you face N and run N, you go just as fast as when you face NE and run NE. If so, apparently you forgot about that simple fact of geometry that moving one square diagonally is going over more distance that moving one square orthogonally.

Anyway, if you hadn't figured it out by your second post, or if stone's statement about twisting and turning didn't give it away, I'll tell you how it adds more realism to make diagonals cost a little more.

It's a basic rule of Blood Bowl strategy that you have more options trying to get to your target if the target is not on a diagonal. Or, if you're at a player's maximum movement away and you're on a diagonal, he only has one path to reach you. This isn't very realistic sometimes, but it's part of the game. But, if you were to make diagonal movement fractionally more expensive (or use hexagons for spaces), you start to level the number of potential paths across all directions, getting closer to the undistorted distances of a measurement game without the measurement.

I don't like how some people mentioned removing the squares as if it were an easy house rule to implement. The squares simplify many aspects of the game. Removing them will necessitate removing the clock, and all the distance judging, tackle zone checking, and movement possibilities could easily make Blood Bowl into a five hour game.

The hex board could be fun, but I don't think restricting sideline-to-sideline movement should be thought of as a bonus. Zombie, in "real football", by which I assume you mean American Football, lateral movement is common. In routes send receivers across the middle at full speed. It's common on a bootleg to have an outlet reciever running parallel to the line. On a typical sweep, two linemen pull and run to the side. Reverses also have lateral, full-speed movement. Don't forget linebackers keeping their shoulders square to the line, or counter treys, or motion before the snap, or the option, or stunting, or sidestepping the rush, or the "chair" route. There's plenty of movement in all directions in football.



Pink Horror

[Zombie]

Zombie, in "real football", by which I assume you mean American Football, lateral movement is common.

No, i meant Canadian football. In that sport, because all movement is allowed before the play starts, there is more lateral movement before, but less during play. There's still some of course, but not nearly as much as straight ahead or diagonally, and not enough to warrant squares instead of hexagons.

The upsides of using hexagons overweight the downsides immensely.

[neoliminal]

Hexigons have several problems...

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\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
     ---     ---     ---     ---           
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
     ---     ---     ---     ---     
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
     ---     ---     ---     ---           
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
     ---     ---     ---     ---           
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
     ---     ---     ---     ---        

Assuming this was your orientation and that you wanted the "grain" of the hexes to go north/south (endzone to endzone), then you have to deal with the Line of Scrimage and the EndZones...

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\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
     ---     ---     ---     ---           
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
     ---     ---     ---     ---     
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
*************************************       
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
     ---     ---     ---     ---           
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
     ---     ---     ---     ---     
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   

Note how any straight line cuts right through the middle of half the hexes.

If this was the endzone line, would standing on this line count as a TD? What about setting up for a kick off, can I set up in these spaces? If you can't set up in these spaces, then you end up with empty hexes at set up.

You could do this...

Code: Select all

 \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
     ---     ---     ---     ---           
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
     ---     ---     ---     ---     
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
     ---     ---     ---     ---     
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.***     ***     ***     ***     ***       
/   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   \   
     ***     ***     ***     ***           
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
     ---     ---     ---     ---           
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   
     ---     ---     ---     ---     
\   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /
.---     ---     ---     ---     ---        
/   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   /   \   

But that's a kludge in my book.

Also if you stick the the same number of spaced on the board, you'll end up with a central hex. This hex would give a large advantage to the team that set up on that side of the board. In otherwords you can't make both sides equal without changing from 15 spaces. One of the beauties of Blood Bowl is the seven space line of scrimage which allows for....

Code: Select all

Three man front.
. . . .|. . . . . . .|. . . .
. . . .|. . . . . . .|. . . .
. . . .|. . . . . . .|. . . .
. . . .|. x . x . x .|. . . .
-----------------------------

four man front

. . . .|. . . . . . .|. . . .
. . . .|. . . . . . .|. . . .
. . . .|. . . . . . .|. . . .
. . . .|x . x . x . x|. . . .
-----------------------------

five man front.
. . . .|. . . . . . .|. . . .
. . . .|. . . . . . .|. . . .
. . . .|. . . . . . .|. . . .
. . . .|. x x x x x .|. . . .
-----------------------------

It's a wonderfult thing, but would probably be lost in a hex version.

I'm not saying hexes wouldn't be better, but I am saying that those of you who think it's a slam-dunk easy shot are missing some essential problems. I suggest trying to play a game on the hexes to see what I mean.