After the last skill?

Got some ideas for rules? Maybe a skill change or something completely different!!! Tell us here.

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mattgslater
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Re: After the last skill?

Post by mattgslater »

Darkson wrote:That's already a rule - you can retire a player at any time.
Maybe the first clue would have been that the next par opened with the word "seriously."

If you want to force players to retire, there are ways to do this. We used to play BB with "offseason events" that happen between the seasons: contract disputes, offseason injuries and improvement, etc. It worked okay, but there were a few things we learned about balancing it out. You can't just kill a player, except of course on the field. There has to be some choice, trade-off, reward, etc. And it has to be really, really fluffy. Here are a few ideas.

1) Collegiate BB. When you form a team, roll 1d3-1 for each player to see how many seasons he's accumulated. When you hire a player à la carte, he has accumulated 0 seasons to date. If you play several short seasons, you can give the player that many MVPs or something. Once a player's played four seasons, he retires, no matter how many SPP he has. If you play in a season-free format, then instead set some number like 50-1d20 games or something like that (not a flat number or a bell-curve, as you don't want everyone to be up at once), with 50 (or whatever) being the default for a rookie hired out of winnings.

2) Offseason Events. Obviously, this doesn't work in straight-perpetual, but if you play perpetual with some sort of season distinction then it might. At the end of each season, roll 2d6 for each player to determine what, if any, kind of offseason event happens to the player.
Quick, off-the-head table:
2: The player announces his retirement if he is a star, or is kicked off the team for off-field behavior (stars can get away with anything). The team saves (gains) his base cost, plus 10,000 gold for each improvement the player had, in voided obligations. If he had 51 or more SPP, he is a Hall of Fame player, and the team gains +1 Fan Factor.
3: The player is seriously injured in the offseason, or just declines to age. Roll 1d6+50 on the Casualty Table and apply the result to the player. He doesn't miss any games.
4: The player is caught using performance-enhancing spells and is suspended by the league for the first 1d3 matches of the next season.
5-9: The player has an uneventful offseason.
10: The player gets in a contract dispute with his team, and the team must pay his TV add in Treasury, or cut the player. If the team does not have enough money, it may give the player all its Treasury, then all its Winnings until it can pay the sum. The player will not play until he has been paid in full.
11: The player has a bumper offseason and makes great strides forward, gaining a free MVP award.
12: The player is noticed by the public for his good deeds and charity, or maybe just because he's a great tipper! If he has 50 or fewer SPP, he gains an MVP. If he has 51 or more, the team gains a Fan Factor instead!

3) Every time a player earns a multiple of 100 SPP, roll 1d6. If the result is equal to or less than 1/100 the player's SPP, he retires if he already has more than one permanent injury (niggle or stat loss), or if not suffers a Cas result of 1d6+50 (the missed game is a well-deserved week off). Note that he can't lose AG or ST. In fact, rather than making it a Cas result, you can make it a niggle. This helps balance niggles too, as IME one NI is no biggie but two is a death sentence.

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Re: After the last skill?

Post by Smurf »

We have a league that is about 14 games deep.

A few players have 40SPP so far.

I'm the commisioner so I thought it was fair. Anyway, getting a player up to 176pts for that final skill would be amazing. I'm giving the player another 125pts of spps.

Furthermore we do not randomise MVP, it is selected and nominated. That is the coach who wants MVP selects the candidates and the opponent nominates the 'one'.

For example if you had the WE Catcher with:

1. Surefeet
2. Sprint
3. MA increase
4. Leap
5. Sidestep
6. Jump Up

A total of 220K of player.

The only time you bring this guy on the pitch is for the 1 turn TD. So it gains 3pts every game that's about 42 games after his final skill!

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Re: After the last skill?

Post by Blammaham »

Yeah that still stinks, bad things should never be a result of good things, thats why aging sucked so bad for ALMOST everyone.S.

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Re: After the last skill?

Post by Ullis »

I guess what most people are trying to argue boils down to this:

This is a rule you never want to invoke, seriously, so why bother in the first place.

Look at the Euro area. We have (had) a rule that no euro area country would be bailed out by the others. The idea was that it would never had to be invoked since the threat of no help would be enough for members to keep their public finances in line. But see what happened the minute a country got in trouble. The rule went out the window. Why? Because it would've sucked so hard if the rule would've been kept to.

Imagine getting a player to 301 SPP's. That's a ridiculous amount of SPP's and you will be attached to the player, even if it's only imaginary stuff or pixels. My best attempt is close to 80 SPP's and it's a GR with -AV and a niggle. He'll die soon enough (I even gave him Leap to make sure). But if someone told me to delete him from the roster I'd hate it.

What if someone gets his kicks from trying to get a single player to as many SPP's as he possibly can? Why deny him that?

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Re: After the last skill?

Post by voyagers_uk »

I agree, Even Griff would not have competed as hard if he was told that he wouldn't have reached a skill or improved anymore. Even Plasmoid's self peaking rule in Gold Ed. was a reaction to stopping you have to curb/cull players... (Yes Martin, I remember that)

to be fair i would have the 6; 16; 31; 51; 76; 126; 201; 301 as an 8th skill boundary. but I would also offer a bounty on that player as part of the league rules. Maybe 126 equals 50k , 201 equals 100k and 301 equals a 150k bounty

That way the team that goes and kills the legend gets a financial reward to go along with the folk-lore bonuses

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Re: After the last skill?

Post by duckwing »

How about a rule that says that when a player reaches 301 spp he goes freelance, just like the famous star players, and is available to hire as inducements by any team in the league. That way he would still be around as long as the league runs even if the coach who trained him aren't allowed to keep him on his roster.
It's a compromise at least.

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Re: After the last skill?

Post by Grumbledook »

6 skills is better than 7, feel free to house rule the super duper uber players to induce games to 1 rr 1 in your own leagues if you like

the current system of players dying on the pitch or the coach choosing is also the best, again house rule you own league to suit

why is this thread even in the tactics section :D ????

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Re: After the last skill?

Post by Smurf »

Laziness... ok I did not see the hse rule thread.

Will a mod move it?

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Re: After the last skill?

Post by Darkson »

What, like I did 2 hours before your post? :wink:

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Re: After the last skill?

Post by mattgslater »

voyagers_uk wrote:to be fair i would have the 6; 16; 31; 51; 76; 126; 201; 301 as an 8th skill boundary. but I would also offer a bounty on that player as part of the league rules. Maybe 126 equals 50k , 201 equals 100k and 301 equals a 150k bounty
I kind of like this. I think those bounties are too high, but I like the idea. How about an SPP thing? Say, if you kill a player with 51 SPP, you get 2x credit for Cas. Or make it a cash thing based on player value? For each confirmed kill, both teams get 1/4 of the dead player's total value, perhaps, rounded down to the nearest 10k, minimum 10k. This wants to pair up with the old players-as-ACs rule, where you'd get a free AC if you fire a guy. These rules (the double-Cas and the cash-for-corpses) actually work well together, as the first one benefits the killer and the second one balances it out a bit to just benefit more blood, all around.

I remember back in the old days ('96-'99) a WE team that got a Dancer up to 7 improvements. Man, that guy was cool. MB, Leap, Sidestep, Diving Tackle (the old DT that had you making out-of-turn blocks), Tackle, Dauntless (combo w/old DT), +MA. That coach had another one with +ST, old DT, and Strip Ball, but as you can imagine he didn't live long enough to get any better than that.

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Re: After the last skill?

Post by Dragoonkin »

GalakStarscraper wrote: One thing I got rid of every where I could from BB in my 2 years running the show was anything that forces you to remove a player from your team or damages a player while not on the pitch. There was a reason for this ... those things ARE NOT FUN ... and its a board game which should equal fun if done correctly.

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Re: After the last skill?

Post by Digger Goreman »

I can't believe I may actually be defending JJ on this one... :oops: ... but the original problem (?) , as far back as 3rd edition, was a gw classic: power creep! Little and big Timmys were whining, "no one wants to play my uber team !) :cry: " So, misguided or not, we got rules so we could play a significant portion of our team, instead of having to shelve it....

I acknowledge that most vocal TBB/TFFers hate these rules... and I play by the book (with the exception that we just implemented Bank rules with the understanding that they should've been in there to begin with)... so no argument.... Just the observation that the original problem is still there... with only Spiralling Expenses to mildly cuff it....

Should I win the lottery, you can run Impact for seemingly ever, Tom, but I will always play BB wondering incredulously at that earlier thread remark about 'not wanting this to be a game to see who rolls the most ones', when I'm facing elves.... :o

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Re: After the last skill?

Post by Bludbowler »

As players continue to add SPP after aquiring their final skill, continue to increase their individual value each time they gain a certain number of additional SPP as if they were adding another skill, even though they really aren't.

Eventually a player who continues to earn SPP will inflate his team's TV to the point where his coach has to decide whether the Spiralling Expenses and increased opponent inducements are worth keeping the player around, even if he isn't carrying too many niggling injuries.

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Re: After the last skill?

Post by Kort »

Bludbowler wrote:As players continue to add SPP after aquiring their final skill, continue to increase their individual value each time they gain a certain number of additional SPP as if they were adding another skill, even though they really aren't.
This is not true in the lastest rules.

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Re: After the last skill?

Post by Thadrin »

Even destroying my way past the AI of the original Cyanide game with my various ridiculous "exactly how disgusting can I make this team" campaigns, I think I only ever got ONE player (a Dwarf Runner) up to this sort of level. That was really stealing candy from babies just to build absolute monstrosity teams.

So how many times would a rule like this ever get needed? Surely such a player would eventually get his comeuppance against competent players, long before such a rule was needed.

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