Help for fresh teams in a perpetual league?

Got some ideas for rules? Maybe a skill change or something completely different!!! Tell us here.

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Helping fresh teams?

No way, inducements are enough
16
43%
Yes, an insurance against deaths for the first 4 games
1
3%
Yes, starting with 1250k instead of 1000k
10
27%
Yes, +20k/10k winnings for <1000/1250 TV teams
4
11%
Other
6
16%
 
Total votes: 37

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Daht
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Re: Help for fresh teams in a perpetual league?

Post by Daht »

Start of season team rating caps.


Basic rundown:

any team that wants eligibility for the playoffs needs to cut their overall tr to 160 (preferably at the start of the season, but if people float in late that's fine also)...

Trophy RR's do not count (makes em nicer).. treasury does not count (yes you can "abuse" the system saving up money to replace your bench or rerolls/coaching)

When cutting your team, you have to keep 11 players minimum, and you can either cut existing players or replace them with rookies of their position at no cost.

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Why this is a good thing, it not only keeps teams going out of control making new players feel the playoffs are pointless, or setting up the "I don't want to play THAT" setup.. it also allows a coach that just really likes his team and wants to keep runnign with it able to do so without it becoming avoided or so bloated it never changes anymore.

This helps make the playoffs both more interesting and competitive, allows new coaches a reasonable team-maturity hill to climb.

This is also optional if you really just want to run a team as far as spiraling expenses take you... you just play a more balanced team for the playoffs. "Retire" them from tournament play but keep them around for fun games.

I used a system like that for years with older versions, and played with the numbers on established teams in our current leage. We opted not to go with it, mainly because we had a few VERY advanced teams that had difficulty making the first 1600TV cut, but most any team that isn't much over 2k TV can cut pretty easily with the 'replace for free' option.

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Re: Help for fresh teams in a perpetual league?

Post by mattgslater »

160k cap sounds harsh. What about allowing all inducements in tournaments, or even providing 50k in free card value (only) for every 200k in inducement cash? Or capping tournaments off at 14 rostered players, plus inducements?

Though I still think the better fix is allowing teams to induce with the future in mind, like the two inducements I proposed on the first page. The key is to make a good fraction of the value of the inducement an on-pitch thing, and then padding it (and adding to its cost) with some kind of future benefit.

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Re: Help for fresh teams in a perpetual league?

Post by Afroman »

DoubleSkulls wrote:The problem we had wasn't as much about balance, it was that the new teams lose a lot to the older teams (as they should - inducements aren't meant to provide a level playing field). That meant the league and qualification was dominated by older teams - which meant the divisions weren't very competitive so everyone was a bit less interested. Making it so there were rookie divisions and experienced divisions made qualification a lot more competitive and hence more fun.
+1

Divisions are the thing.
We have several TV-based divisions.

A rookie division that is the only place a new team can come into the league.
A minor for all the teams(not new) that are below 1400K TV
and then several more division with ascending TV-range.

works quite nice.

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Re: Help for fresh teams in a perpetual league?

Post by Daht »

A big part of the effectiveness of any system is the type of league it's put in. 1600 cap lets you keep a strong team if you don't have a ton of staff/rerolls, but it also matters where the teams are if you implement it mid-league, or how fast a new team can progress in general.

Also, scheduled matches or open ffa? challenges? how many coaches? do a handful of players play the majority of games?

Salary cap is best in a very open play league, where you get a few coaches that play a lot with pet teams that spiral out faster than the norm. In a more regimented play league, with good parity, it has little benefit.

I also wish there were the old extra mvp/cash cards.. I understand the reasons they were removed, but it would be nice to have them printed up (or blank options) with the new cards. Inducement options for team-building are great options also.

I always thought with how the game has developed with tourneys there should be a clear divide in rules between perpetual league and tourneys.. allowing things like money cards, extra mvp/cash ect that are simply non-tourney legal.

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Re: Help for fresh teams in a perpetual league?

Post by mattgslater »

Divisions aren't a bad idea. What we did for one season, and may continue with:

1) You get 2 VP for a win, 1 VP for a tie or OT loss.
2) Divisions are grouped the same way as Star Player ranks, so you need 6 to get to Div I, 16 to get to Div II, 31 to get to Div III, etc.
3) Every month, you get up to four matches, each filling "slots" that refresh every month. One slot is a "divisional" match, which must be against a team in your division that you haven't played this month or in last month's "divisional" match if there is an alternative.
4) In the postseason tournament, the coaches are seated by team VP; half sit at the top table, and half at the bottom table. The losers at the top table face the winners at the bottom table in the second round. If the number of coaches is a multiple of two, but not of four, place the extra game in the bottom table. This way, a coach running a low-TV team can get into the tourney by beating a losing or low-TV team, and then beating a more successful team.

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Re: Help for fresh teams in a perpetual league?

Post by siggyllama »

MeatLoafX wrote:(We also do a nominate 3, select 1 of those three at random for MVP - and that's for everyone not just new players).
For our new TT league, we're looking at letting teams use this MVP system for their first 5 games, then they have to switch to random MVP. Thoughts? Too few games? Idea too dumb?

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Re: Help for fresh teams in a perpetual league?

Post by dines »

siggyllama wrote:
MeatLoafX wrote:(We also do a nominate 3, select 1 of those three at random for MVP - and that's for everyone not just new players).
For our new TT league, we're looking at letting teams use this MVP system for their first 5 games, then they have to switch to random MVP. Thoughts? Too few games? Idea too dumb?
Well its mostly an advantage to teams with low ag players who really benefit from getting spps and teams who like to keep cheap linefodder (thus avoiding a wasted MVP on a zombie etc.). So you boost lizardmen, orc and nurgle the most followed by vamps, necro and undead. But if your fine with that, go for it.

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Re: Help for fresh teams in a perpetual league?

Post by Daht »

Our current system (open leage, different coaches play varying amounts of games and teams):

+1 winnings per 100k, can cash 50k of it in for an extra MVP

Roll twice for MVP, pick preferred player

10's rule - injury rolls of 10 are automatically badly hurt


This works well to keep squishier teams from getting wiped out, and coaches that play infrequently getting enough boosts to not get buried behind. I am figuring the best way to curb the 10's rule with established teams (ie if 2 teams over 1600ish play it's negated, or a 'grudge match' inducement that you can play if your opponent is high enough team value (1600+) that would negate the rule for the game on both teams.

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Re: Help for fresh teams in a perpetual league?

Post by Bludbowler »

The two biggest problems new coaches face when joining leagues with older, more powerful teams is their lack of players with skills, and rapid loss of players through casualties. A couple ways to minimize this would be:

1. Allow teams to hire rookie linemen with Inducement cash, with any unspent Inducement money going into their team treasury after the game. This will give new coaches an incentive to take on insanely more powerful teams because they know that even if they take a pounding, they can fill their roster and build their cash reserves faster.

2. Allow new coaches to hire players previously cut from other teams at their original rookie base price, but only when creating their original team roster. This would allow rookie coaches to acquire skilled players right off the bat, while those same players will most likely have accumulated some niggling injuries and stat reductions along the way. Coaches of Undead teams would be allowed to hire "dead" players from other teams, although they would have to add 1D3 worth of niggling injuries to keep it fair.

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Re: Help for fresh teams in a perpetual league?

Post by Digger Goreman »

The problem is in the description: you have teams at 200TV.... The fact that people WANT TO run those teams is the problem and what will quash any solution... imho....

What Double-Skulls said is true: Inducements won't provide a level playing field... they are only designed to provide ~1/3 compensation....

One possible solution might be in the rulebook: issuing challenges.... This would likely create a pseudo training league where the newb teams are avoiding the biggies till they are better prepared....

I'm a huge fan of caps... but haven't seen hardly any support from others....

Just some thoughts....

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Re: Help for fresh teams in a perpetual league?

Post by WeeManBiggins »

In the league I run we have a cap of 200TV. We only allow teams who have played a season in our league to return/continue so no super rosters from years of gaming. Teams can go over 200TV during the season but upon registration they must be 200TV or under.

To allow them to do this we have a "going on tour" rule. If a team has been away from the league one or more seasons and returns they are allowed to replace veteran players with a brand new player of the same position at no extra cost. This allows players to continue with their favourite teams and players and almost start a fresh with them if they decided to.

With the inducements and the cap of 200TV we see the "big teams" being stripped down so they give away minimal inducements and start a new lease of life. It also reduces the massive gulf between new teams and old.

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