Cost of Rerolls

[legowarrior]

I was curious if any teams would go up in tier (from 2 to 1) if the cost of rerolls for that team was reduced, and if any teams would go down in tier if the cost of rerolls was increased.

My thinking is that some teams benefit more greatly from rerolls than others. Vampires might even be tier 2 if their rerolls were 50k. I was wondering what other people think. Could such small differences make a big impact?

[inkpwn]

Slann would suck if they went up.
Necro needs a reduction IMHO.

[mattgslater]

Amazons: RRs could be 60k, and they'd still be playable.
Chaos: 50k RRs wouldn't change much.
Chaos Pact: 60k RRs would make them significantly better.
Humans: I think Blitzers and Ogres should be 10k cheaper, but TRRs should be 60k.
Khemri: I think this team is very fun with high-priced TRRs, but if they were 60k it would work.
Lizardmen: I think they're about right. 50k would be too cheap, 70k is unnecessary but wouldn't be a catastrophe.
Necromantic: I used to think that 60k TRRs and 110k FGs would be great, but seeing stats on how good they were with 70k and 100k, I now think my old idea would be too good.
Norse: 50k TRRs would make for some better builds.
Vampires: 60k TRR would make them quite a bit(e) better.
Wood Elves: My instinct says "leave it" for all teams with 70k TRRs, but these guys could have it the WORST as a balancing mechanism and it wouldn't be enough.

[legowarrior]

So, if you had a newbie player who wanted to try out the Vampires, (a tier 3 team) would changing the reroll costs to 60K or 50K be enough to push it to a tier 1 or tier 2 team? I don't have anyone like that, but I am curios if there is a simple way to make everyone tier 1.

[Urb]

the nega trait blood lust is too great to overcome for vamipres to become tier1. I find it difficult to believe they can be tier2 even with free rr's. ok I'm exaggerating but from my experiences vampires are a difficult team even under the best of times.

[MeatLoafX]

It's definitely possible it would make an impact, but I believe part of the cost of rerolls is also based on theme - the more organized the team, the cheaper the rerolls. Elves, Dwarves, etc. train hard and are notoriously good blood bowl players. Hence, more and better training and lower RR costs. The chaotic, crazy teams are harder to train and harder to control - hence greater costs for RRs.

Not the only reason - balance likely plays into it a lot, but I think there's more to it than just game balance.

[mattgslater]

If you had a newbie coach who wanted to try Vampires, advise him to take them as his #2 team. If he really, really wants to play Vampires, steer him to Humans, tell him to use the Vampire models as Blitzers and the Thralls as Linos, and to use them as Vamps in the second season. If he really wants the experience of the team, shrug, help him out a little, and make it clear he can expect to lose a lot.

The price of TRRs won't make a big difference. He can start 2 Vamps, 10 Thralls, 5 RRs and 30k saved for an Apothecary or another Vamp. Apothecary is great as an anti-Bloodlust tool, because you don't need to save it for Vamps (who Regen) or dead/SI/MNG Thralls (you don't care). So go ahead, use it on a KO or early BH! It's better once you have Thralls with SPP, so starting a reserve is better.

It's not just Bloodlust and the sucky overall profile, though. One other problem with Vamps is that Hypnotic Gaze adds a new dimension to the game. You might recommend he try another medium-speed team before playing Vampires. Amazons are probably the single easiest midrange team to learn the game on, because their profiles are no-frills and homogenous. Dark Elves, Humans, Lizardmen, and Necromantic are not great newbie teams, but they're not that advanced, and have clear parallels to Vampires. Dwarfs, Orcs, Undead and Skaven all have stark differences, but all are good learning teams.