Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL

[dode74]

C-POMB is wrecking our game.... BASH is the winning style

I certainly don't think this is the case in leagues at all. I was talking purely about online MM where playing non-bash teams clearly needs to be incentivised (based on data from FOL and FUMBBL).

[Steam Ball]

Hmmm... promoting passing game...

To avoid "passing in the backfield" farming, give only/extra SPP if the ball advances (ball ends one or more squares near enemy TD than start position, and it was never moved backwards that turn, so no "running back and passing forward" trick). There would be some farming, but at least the ball will have to move a bit towards the line each turn. OK, on second thought, this one is more about putting the ball in range of everyone than promoting passing.

Or give extra SPP for passes that end in TD in the same turn, or that are received in the TD zone (riskier, if failed it has 3/8 of being launched back into the field, except in the corner case).

[garion]

Hmmm... promoting passing game...

To avoid "passing in the backfield" farming, give only/extra SPP if the ball advances (ball ends one or more squares near enemy TD than start position, and it was never moved backwards that turn, so no "running back and passing forward" trick). There would be some farming, but at least the ball will have to move a bit towards the line each turn. OK, on second thought, this one is more about putting the ball in range of everyone than promoting passing.

Or give extra SPP for passes that end in TD in the same turn, or that are received in the TD zone (riskier, if failed it has 3/8 of being launched back into the field, except in the corner case).

It's all too complicated, just give them an extra 1 spp for a long pass and an extra 2 for long bomb, surely that would suffice?

[Steam Ball]

They all are suggestions compatible with long and bomb. I wasn't saying "instead of", but as a set of things to examine, all of them. They even have different effects, SPP for range gives incentives to bigger passes (the risk is turn over if doing in the backfield), but the others give incentives to useful passes (the risk is turn over AND putting the ball in bigger danger).

Pass to receiver in TD zone, or that runs to TD zone, are both simple, as the turn ends immediately. Advance the ball is moderately complex, just mark the start position and remove it from the field when the ball goes backwards beyond that point (hey! and a reason to model markers when playing TT).

[voyagers_uk]

C-POMB is wrecking our game.... BASH is the winning style....

Yes and no for me, Yes CPOMB games are just sooo boring it's unbelievable. They have taken away the whole positioning fun of the game and the challange of playing some bash teams. Yes for me it is wrecking the game and because the odds are so high for removing players from the pitch you do get the occasionall game where you have lost 5 BH+ before your third turn.

But generally I don't think I agree with the winning style part. Personally I have had just as great success with elves as I have bash, possibly with the exception of Chaos Dwarves (think I had close to a 20 game winning streak with them) who should never ever have been allowed to get Claw.

my point was not that you would win more games with Bash, just that as a favoured style it was winning the popularity race

[garion]

Ah sorry, well.... I think that bash always will be, elf teams are far harder to use until you know how. It took me a long time to figure out how to use elf teams properly. But bash is pretty straight forward once you have figured out how to move a cage forwards. People are often asking how to break cages with elf teams and stuff like that because they just don't know how.

Also people like killing stuff alot, regardless of spp

But anyway, its a nice idea. As said I just think the easiest way is to reward passing is long bombs or long passes. But personalyl I think the spp distrution is one thing that is fine as is atm.

[cbbakke]

[Personal attack removed.]

Back on track

Hmmm... promoting passing game...

To avoid "passing in the backfield" farming, give only/extra SPP if the ball advances (ball ends one or more squares near enemy TD than start position, and it was never moved backwards that turn, so no "running back and passing forward" trick). There would be some farming, but at least the ball will have to move a bit towards the line each turn. OK, on second thought, this one is more about putting the ball in range of everyone than promoting passing.

Or give extra SPP for passes that end in TD in the same turn, or that are received in the TD zone (riskier, if failed it has 3/8 of being launched back into the field, except in the corner case).

It's all too complicated, just give them an extra 1 spp for a long pass and an extra 2 for long bomb, surely that would suffice?

I think this is a very interesting idea, but then a long bomb would be worth as much as a touchdown for SPP. Not sure I like that...

How about this for an idea: A team has 4 or 5 turns to score. If they don't score then they have to kick off to the other team. If I don't score on my last turn, then both teams reset up and I have to kick off to the other team. My preference offhand would be teams had 5 turns to score and each half would be 9 turns so it would insure both teams got at least one full 5 turns to score.

I think this would effect teams differently and I am not sure it would work or not but here are some good things I would see from it.

1. Stalling for the half would not be an option.
2. It would guarantee that both teams get one drive a half at least.
3. I think would make bench more use able and important.
4. It would promote passing.
5. Make it harder for basher teams to completely control the pitch.
6. Give non bashers more chances to get players back on the pitch.
7. I think it would create a lot more options on defense tactically.
8. I think it would make skills like pass block far more likely to be taken

[cbbakke]

adding onto the above post:

I had given this some thought last night and I see some potential in it.

Right now a basher team against a finesse team has a pretty easy game plan. Let finesse team have ball first, if they score no biggie. Basher has rest of first half to score and then the ball for the entire 2nd half and scores on last turn and racks up CAS. It doesnt always work out that well but it is pretty straight forward common tactic.

With this set up The basher team really needs to never stop the finesse team on offense, just limit them to having one turn at the end of the game.

With the 5 turns to score and 9 turn halves, in order to win your team is going to have to get a stop on defense, which I really like.


I am not sold on this as a must do or anything close to that, but I see some interesting and good possibilities in this as well as reducing the thing I have always hated the most about this game. stalling. Playing a board game to have fun just to have half of the game stalled out is the suck imo.

[Joemanji]

I like that Joemanji!

I'm okay with that as well. If that was the case I'd definitely go with my original list (ie Block/Dodge/Guard/Leader/Claw) for the extra 10k.

Then the rules would just be Traits (marked by a (T) on the Skill Category chart) would cost 10k extra over their normal skill cost).

I think the benefit of this idea would be that it does not change the dynamic of skill choice as is, which I really like. But it does punish spamming of great skills over more interesting choices. It makes very little difference over one skill, either 30K or 20K. But over ten skills? Is ten Block or Dodge worth 100K more than the equivalent amount of Wrestle / Side Step?

No way Wrestle should be extra IMO. For a start it gives a viable non-Block option. And it also helps balance off teams that start with loads of Block.

[koadah]

How about this for an idea: A team has 4 or 5 turns to score. If they don't score then they have to kick off to the other team. If I don't score on my last turn, then both teams reset up and I have to kick off to the other team. My preference offhand would be teams had 5 turns to score and each half would be 9 turns so it would insure both teams got at least one full 5 turns to score.

Nice idea but you would have to rebalance (forgive me PGoo) everything or it would all be way too easy for elves.

IMO the races would need to look a bit too similar for it to work.

[voyagers_uk]

time for some Threadromancy

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=25614

[garion]

I like that Joemanji!

I'm okay with that as well. If that was the case I'd definitely go with my original list (ie Block/Dodge/Guard/Leader/Claw) for the extra 10k.

Then the rules would just be Traits (marked by a (T) on the Skill Category chart) would cost 10k extra over their normal skill cost).

I think the benefit of this idea would be that it does not change the dynamic of skill choice as is, which I really like. But it does punish spamming of great skills over more interesting choices. It makes very little difference over one skill, either 30K or 20K. But over ten skills? Is ten Block or Dodge worth 100K more than the equivalent amount of Wrestle / Side Step?

No way Wrestle should be extra IMO. For a start it gives a viable non-Block option. And it also helps balance off teams that start with loads of Block.

I do like your idea, but further to making skills worth more I think some should be less.

So keep the basics as 20k so –

20k list
Block,
Dodge,
Wrestle,
Tackle,
MB,
Kick,
Dirty Player,
Catch
Tentacles
Prehensile Tail
Two Heads
Extra Arms
Big Hand
Side Step
Nerves of Steel
Shadowing
Stand Firm
Multi Block
Horns
Dauntless
Sure Hands
Strong Arm
Jump Up
Leader

30k list
+Ma
+Av
Claw
Diving Tackle
Leap
Guard

40k list
Pilling On
+Ag
+St

10k list
Pass
Accurate
Fend
Sneaky Git
Very Long Legs
Kick Off Return
Pass Block
Sprint
Diving Catch
Sure Feet
Dump off
Safe Throw

Hmm, not sure if I have missed any, but this is how I would do it. If any one thinks Fend should be 20k then I would argue that Pilling On should be 40k because it is the most powerful skill in the game by far when used in combination with others and the one skill that breaks one of the fundamental rules in the book, that you cannot ever use re-rolls for av or injury. I wouldn't make block or dodge worth more than the base amount because it changes the basics of the game too much and is too big a boost for dwarves norse and zons all teams that are already incredibly effective in short leagues... the majority of which TT players play.

[Smurf]

Since the use of Safe Throw the passing game is very much in!

My last game with my WE, one turn left to make a 1TTD for fun. I lined them up for the tricky shunt and got the catcher into a scoring position, between 3 DEs. Made the Pass, he intercepted it, Safe throw denied it, caught the ball and went off to score the TD.

I would like to see interceptions after pass has played. It's more fun to watch smiling faces turn sour.

1. Nominate Pass and move Passer
2. Declare catcher/reciever
3. Move Pass Blockers
4. Throw dice to pass and catch
5. Throw to intercept and throw Safe Throw to deny it.

The only note is that it increases fumbles and inaccurates, however any throw to intercept = 2SP if succefully takes the ball.

[garion]

Since the use of Safe Throw the passing game is very much in!

I strongly disagree. Safe throw is a nice skill albeit very very situational like all passing skill. I have never played against any one that has taken safe throw in thousands of games. The only time I have faced it is when playing against High Elves and I have only ever used it once in approxomitaly 70 games with high elves and it didn't work lol

Passing is generally not used at all when playing at the highest level other than spp farming or just throwing it a quick pass, for a quick pass then hand off score type of play and generally these passes are done when it is always impossible for players to intercept it passblock on the pitch or not. None of the passing skills are tier 1 skills imo. Catch is a good agility skill mind and that is on the passing play spectrum. But this is because it helps with spp farming, catching hand offs, interceptions, passes, scattered passes. So I would rate that higher than all the passing skills other than leader if you count that as a passing skill.

Your example is nice, but as said it is very very situational and will not apply to the vast majority games unlike skills like block, tackle, diving tackle, leap, Pilling On etc.... which all effect every action you make and effect your positional play greatly which is also why it is generally not worth the TV investment unless you have already got an uber developed team.

[plasmoid]

Hi Garion,
admittedly Smurf can be a bit unconventional.
Even so, I doubt you've played thousands of CRP games - which I'm sure is what Smurf is referring to.