Crazy suggested Rewrite for the Amazons

[zerodemon]

I quite like the current Norse team.

Like I said, I like doubleskulls team list there. Make the most sense, though I'd remove safe throw, making it a no brainer first upgrade for throwers.

Had an idea for a player to replace Human Catchers to differentiate them from Amazons further. Akin to the idea of Zug really and how I imagine humans play the sport.

0-4 Defender 5/3/3/9 Guard, Wrestle GS AP

These boys would be on the line or on the corners of a human cage. They've got high AV but are slow movers. Guard makes them perfect for assisting the weaker humans and wrestle represents their extra strength.

I though Block would just make them slow blitzers. I'm loathe to make them ST4 because no human should be as strong as a Black Orc without having the blessings of the Chaos Gods or being, you know, Zug.

[Xadie]

No team should start with Guard. Ever.
Making them able to start with 4 guarders would make humans absolute killers in a tournament format.

[neverworking]

No one should start with guard. I do think a reasonable path for the regular human roster would be a 0-2 blocker position that had access to strength skills. It would allow them to be a bit more versatile in the long run as finding enough guards wouldn't be a problem. Presumably it would come at the expense of 2 catcher slots, and they probably shouldn't start with much of worth, because humans are fine at tv1000, as at that level they are good and able to alter their game depending on the opponent per the fluff. Its just that long term they can't really bash enough to offset the ceiling on their agility/speed play.

[zerodemon]

Righty ho, that makes sense. No Guard then. What about Wrestle-Grab? The ability to pull opposing players out of position could be handy for humans who often have trouble breaking cages. This would bring down their agility somewhat (you're right in the idea that catchers are gone) while increasing their offensive play through ST skill access on Defenders and the Wrestle Grab combo.

[Chris]

No disrespect to the creator of the current roster, but quite frankly universal dodge is a big fail for me.

Code: Select all

16  Linewoman 50	6337	Fend	AG-PS
4	Catcher	70	8237	Diving Catch, Dodge	AG-PS
2	Thrower	70	6337	Hail Mary Pass, Pass, Safe Throw	AGP-S
4	Blitzer	90	7338	Wrestle	AGS-P

One thing I'm thinking would be fun, would be a roster with a lot of wrestle & jump up.

I do like the concept of the amazons as a throwing team, though don't nessecerily like the above. I do think they need good players out of the box because they will take a lot of attrition, especially in developed bash environments.

Losing dodge from the linewomen is a given. But you still need reasonably high costs for team building balance purposes.

Out out there idea I like builds on both the idea that they are the passing from the block/running/passing line up of human teams, and the traditional concept of them being archers (or in warhammer sling shots and stuff).

You end up with
0-16 Line 6/3/3/7 Fend, Pass AGP/S 60k
0-4 Catchers 8/2/3/7 Dodge, Catch, Diving Catch AG/PS 80k
0-4 Blitzers 7/3/3/7 Block, Dodge GS/AP 80k
rr 60k
So your average player comes from the stock of distance hunters, those that prefer hitting their siblings or running away get singled out as blitzers and catchers.

The blitzers are good out of the box, you would present a far more reliable threat passing wise and the catchers are vaguely elf like, enough to worry the opposition

[Chris]

Ah humans are a different kettle of fish! As there are many other team threads for them you should perhaps steer clear...
Still to be a bit random and to use my old 2nd ed models I have always liked this:-
0-16 Line 6/3/3/8 G/APS 50k
0-2 Blocker 5/3/3/9 Block GS/AP 70k
0-2 Kicker 6/3/3/8 Kick, Kick off return G/APS 70k
0-2 Thrower 6/3/3/8 Pass, Sure Hands GP/AS 70k
0-2 Blitzer 7/3/3/8 Block GS/AP 80k
0-2 Catcher 8/3/3/7 Dodge, Catch 90k
0-1 Ogre 130k
rr 60k

[neverworking]

Righty ho, that makes sense. No Guard then. What about Wrestle-Grab? The ability to pull opposing players out of position could be handy for humans who often have trouble breaking cages. This would bring down their agility somewhat (you're right in the idea that catchers are gone) while increasing their offensive play through ST skill access on Defenders and the Wrestle Grab combo.

I wouldn't even give them that much, humans are fine at TV1000, they just fade later. I'd be more apt to go with something as vanilla at 6338 GS for 60k; which is really just a lineman guaranteed to be able to take guard (they would both be 80k after 1 skill, if the lineman got guard). Knowing you could take guard on such a blocker might even free you up to be more creative with the 4 blitzers. If you really want it to have a skill 6338 Grab 70k wouldn't be awful, but anything more would be too much imo.

[DoubleSkulls]

0-16 Line 6/3/3/7 Fend, Pass AGP/S 60k
0-4 Catchers 8/2/3/7 Dodge, Catch, Diving Catch AG/PS 80k
0-4 Blitzers 7/3/3/7 Block, Dodge GS/AP 80k
rr 60k

I can't say I'm a particularly big fan of having lots of players with Pass...

How about something different again... universal jump up?

Line 6337 Jump Up GA/SP 50k
Catcher 8237 JU, DC, Dodge GA/SP 80k
Thrower 6337 JU, Pass, HMP GAP/S 70k
Blitzer 7338 JU, Wrestle GAS/P 80k

[Xadie]

Could work, though the blitzers should still start with block.

[Chris]

I think it would be fun, sadly it would also be a pile or corpses. Certainly interesting for a resurection tournament, but for the long term well, would there be one?

It all comes down to the somewhat lackluster 6/3/3/7 stat line. As no one on the team has any resilance skills make up for it. But of course skills simply improve base stats so ultimately you fall behind those with better starting stat lines. Other teams with comparable players have better positionals, whereas Amazon ones start good but don't really go anywhere.
Block is taken by norse so if you don't address the supporting positionals or base stat line you are either trying to find something as good as dodge using 1 or 2 skills combined with A access (difficult) or having to think completely out of the box, but realising that player will quite often be a journeyman...

So if we are wedded to 6/3/3/7 skill GA/PS (what effect would 7/3/3/7 GA/PS have, turn them more into a running team? Would need better positional support?)

Dodge isn't just about stay alive, it is also about movement. Does Fend help as much with that - so less need to dodge, but then again you will be taking more hits so outnumbered and possible surrounded.

If you are looking at a universal skill the choices seem to be

Fend - A defensive skill, just not as good as dodge
Wrestle - a kind of fluffy norse, doesn't do much to prevent you being outnumbered though if you are getting beaten up while the opposition get touched up

'Crazy'
Dauntless - angry warrior women
Frenzy - Snap
Jump Up - Well, you will move about lots. Maybe jump up with fend would be an interesting starting combo, at least for the 1st half


Odd addons to substandard skills (replace dodge with 2 skills essentially)
Pass block - lots of this would shut down the passing game which is so vital to blood bowl
Strip Ball - Lots more loose balls
Pass - having 4 or more passing pieces on the team gives a more reliable passing game
Shadowing - Hunting thingy, would get you all killed though, would need something to go with it!
Tackle - ha, take it to them!
Diving tackle - you will all die... Though while doing so make the opponents life harder
Sprint - well, more risky movement isn't much of a help

Odd starting combos could be jump up/fend for a good first half, jump up/wrestle for disruption and quite powerful start, fend/shadowing for a less than ideal combo, etc.

That doesn't address the positionals though. They both have to be good to help the less powerful linewomen out and also somehow be able to improve.

And finally the team can't be so cheap that there is only one starting line up!

[DoubleSkulls]

How about something truly radical - making the team Av8 instead, so lack of dodge becomes less of an issue? For example

Line 6338 Fend 60k GA/SP
Catcher 8237 Dodge, Catch, Diving Catch 80k GA/SP
Thrower 6338 Pass, Safe Throw, Fend 70k GAP/S
Blitzer 7338 Wrestle, Fend 80k GAS/P

Universal A access means you can develop the team into AG3 Blodgers.

I'd be changing the Human team too, but that's a different topic.

[DoubleSkulls]

Could work, though the blitzers should still start with block.

Why do you think that? In my view Amazon blitzers are all about getting down... so wrestle works better

[harroguk]

Personally I like the idea of "Fend" across the board. This would put them in a unique niche whilst making them interesting to play against (Never has where do I put him been so important). As previously suggested they may need something else to improve their survivability.

[DoubleSkulls]

So how about 6338 Fend 60k GA/SP for the linewomen?

[Chris]

How about something truly radical - making the team Av8 instead, so lack of dodge becomes less of an issue? For example

Line 6338 Fend 60k GA/SP
Catcher 8237 Dodge, Catch, Diving Catch 80k GA/SP
Thrower 6338 Pass, Safe Throw, Fend 70k GAP/S
Blitzer 7338 Wrestle, Fend 80k GAS/P

Universal A access means you can develop the team into AG3 Blodgers.

I'd be changing the Human team too, but that's a different topic.

Interesting. Does mean playing a team with no 'hard bash' option due to needing a second blocking skill, and devalues guard on blitzers, so a harder development in some ways. So why no fend on the catcher?

And out of interest why does near universal access to pass (and passing skills) not appeal. It is quite different to any other team out there...

Moving away from dodge though and not getting wrestle or block does need something more than one other skill. And making the linewomen 60k is neat from a teambuilding angle.

Of course they are only wearing armoured bikini's - why tougher than a skaven linerat?