Improvement table awarding a given value of improvements Mk2

[dines]

Agree with Darkson and Dode, two or more skill-ups at a time is too much, but some skills is definately only worth 10k. It would be interesting to test it.

[Corvidius]

I think the idea has a lot of good points to it. Discounted skills, normal skills and premium skills has potential (particularly so if you are in a tv matched environment like Fumbbl), getting 2 discounted skills rather than say Block on a normal roll would provide variety in skill selection which could be cool (could also get very hard to keep track of though).

It's an interesting idea, i think there's some tinkering that could be done to what's where (i think Tackle should be a premium skill for example) and maybe a look at how to present the options as i found the way it's written above to be slightly confusing. All in all though it's a nice idea that kinda falls in line with the rules for some british tournies.

[spubbbba]

All in all though it's a nice idea that kinda falls in line with the rules for some british tournies.

That could be a very interesting way to test this a bit.

Have a tourney where teams get something like 6 crap skills, 4 ok ones and 2 good ones (maybe stats or doubles instead). Teams that start with a lot of the good skills such as zons, dwarfs and norse would get less and the tier 2/3 ones get more.

Either that or teams can only pick the 10K skills and all get to take 6 or every team gets 10 individual crap skills that they distribute amongst their players how they seem fit, but the weaker teams get more cash to spend on their team. Hmm, could be an idea for the White Isle Star Bowl in 2012, imagine a “star player” with shadowing, multiblock, passblock, kick off return, Nerves of Steel, strong arm, catch and dump off.

It would be an interesting way to help determine those skills that are on the borderline and those that are not even worth 10K so could do with a buff. I’m sure there are plenty of coaches who have never used some skills, either because they don’t pick it or took it but never got a chance to use it.

[Corvidius]

All in all though it's a nice idea that kinda falls in line with the rules for some british tournies.

That could be a very interesting way to test this a bit.

Have a tourney where teams get something like 6 crap skills, 4 ok ones and 2 good ones (maybe stats or doubles instead). Teams that start with a lot of the good skills such as zons, dwarfs and norse would get less and the tier 2/3 ones get more.

Either that or teams can only pick the 10K skills and all get to take 6 or every team gets 10 individual crap skills that they distribute amongst their players how they seem fit, but the weaker teams get more cash to spend on their team. Hmm, could be an idea for the White Isle Star Bowl in 2012, imagine a “star player” with shadowing, multiblock, passblock, kick off return, Nerves of Steel, strong arm, catch and dump off.

It would be an interesting way to help determine those skills that are on the borderline and those that are not even worth 10K so could do with a buff. I’m sure there are plenty of coaches who have never used some skills, either because they don’t pick it or took it but never got a chance to use it.

I was thinking more along the lines of 5 normal rolls, 1 Double but also allow the Inducement system to be used. So you could have 12 discount skills potentially for a tv increase of 120 or 6 Blocks for a tv increase of 180 kind of thing. It would certainly be interesting for some of the teams.

[mattgslater]

I'd like to see a system where some skills, like 2 per category, come with a 10k player cost deduction. That's all: 10k savings for each of the silly skills you take, like Shadowing, Multiple Block, etc.

G: Pass Block, Shadowing
A: Diving Catch, Sprint
P: Hail Mary Pass, Nerves of Steel
S: Multiple Block, Thick Skull
M: Prehensile Tail, Very Long Legs

[Wylder]

A logical way to look at this in practice is to consider normal team builds, here is an example.

On my skaven teams, I regularly get 5-skill runners that have no +stats and (average) 1 double. I build these guys as follows:

Block (20k), Sidestep (20k), Shadowing (20k, Fend (20k), Big Hand (30k). These 5 skills are 110k of improvements. Obviously I take the double where I can get it, but otherwise, the skills are chosen in that order.

Under the new system, these skills would be as follows

Block (30k), Sidestep (20k), Shadowing (10k), Fend (10k), Big Hand (20k).

This means that three things result:

1) I have 20k left over, so my 5-skill runners will get to take something else. If I pick these from the 10k skills category (Pass Block & Kick off Return spring to mind), then I'm going to have 7-skill runners, instead of 5.

2) My new double skill is block. Generally I take this first, so it's going to happen a LOT later. If money can be "saved", then I can take nothing and get it at 16spp. If it can't be saved, my runners will be a lot less powerful to start, and a lot more powerful once I get the double.

3) I'm going to have a lot more big hand on my team a lot earlier, since I ussually have to wait for the doubles to take it.


Another runner build I often use is as follows:

Wrestle (20k), Tackle (20k), Dauntless (20k), Sidestep (20k), Shadowing (20k).

Shadowing is the only skill to change there, giving me 10k extra to spend. There are no downsides here.


It's an interesting option.

[Darkson]

I think you're misunderstanding a little - Block is still a "normal" skill for GR, just one you pay 30K for (instead of 20K). Big Hand is still a "double", so you'll still pay the extra 10K for it (so 20K total).
All the suggestion is that some skills have a premium attached to them (eg Block), whereas some get a discount (eg Big Hand) - it has no effect on what category the skills are in, so no effect on whether you need a double or not to get them.

[Wylder]

I think you're misunderstanding a little - Block is still a "normal" skill for GR, just one you pay 30K for (instead of 20K).

No, I understand, but if I just rolled a skillup and I get 20k worth of skills to spend, I can't get block. I don't have enough skill cost points (or whatever).

If you can't save up between one skillup and the next, Block effectively requires a double (or 10+) to obtain.

Sure I might have used the words "double" slightly incorrectly, but if the net effect is the same then in some ways this system makes it into a doubles-skill.

[Darkson]

You've got it wrong.

Your gutter runner rolls a normal skill - if you take Block, you increase his cost by 30K, if you take Pro, you only increase it by 10K - the skill roll doesn't give you a value under this proposal, anymore than it does currently - the only difference is that some normal rolls are 10K, some 30K and some stay at 20K.

Or put another way:

GR with Block = 110K
GR with Wrestle = 100K
GR with Pro = 90K

But these are all a GR with 1 normal skill.

[DoubleSkulls]

Ah, I think I misunderstood the proposal too.

[Darkson]

*IMPROVEMENT TABLE*
2-9 = A single New skill of any value or new skills with value no greater than 20K.
10 = Increase the player's MA or AV by 1 point or a single New skill of any value or new skills with value no greater than 30K.
11 = Increase the player's AG by 1 point or New skill(s) with combined value no greater than 40K.
12 = Increase the player's ST by 1 point or New skill(s) with combined value no greater than 50K.

I'm personally against giving more than one skill - at a push, I'd say you could take 2 10K skills, but other than that, I like the idea.

[mattgslater]

I'm right about where Simon is, except that I don't like the idea of 30k skills either, unless your goal is to change tracks from the root. Having some 10k skills, still one skill per selection, would make a huge difference in availability of combo.

[nick_nameless]

It's an interesting concept. I do like the increase in value for core skills like Block, Dodge and Guard.

The first thing that jumped into my mind: Is Block or Dodge as a single skill really 50% more valuable than, say, the combination of Prehensile Tail and Shadowing on a Beastman?

Maybe what that needs is to have a smaller 10K list, or none at all. One normal skill on a Mummy and I am so taking Grab and Thick Skull. Any AG player is psyched to get Sprint and Sure Feet, and I definitely think this combo is worth more than the 30K move boost.

All I am saying really is that the list needs to be adjusted a bit, but I like the concept. Mighty Blow should probably be in the 30K group.

[Smurf]

I like the idea of situational skills.

When I want to throw the ball then: Pass, Accurate, Safe Throw, Strong Arm and Catch with Nerves of Steel are really great.

You may as well say Sure Hands is situational because all you have to do is pick up the ball once!

What about a sliding scale?

first skill costs: 10, 20, 30 (top rate), with doubles costing 30,

Whatever, I think it's not broken.

[Hitonagashi]

You may as well say Sure Hands is situational because all you have to do is pick up the ball once!

Just as a minor point, the value of sure hands isn't really the RR, it's also the "counters strip ball" part of it, especially at higher TVs