Narrow Tier BB - 2012

[plasmoid]

Hi all,
following lots of online discussion + feedback from the pbem playtest tournament, I've decided to make a 2012 revision for NTBB.
You can read more here: http://www.plasmoids.dk/bbowl/NTBB.htm
and you can see the neat roster pdf here: http://www.plasmoids.dk/NTBB.pdf

I've summarized the rules below:
The intent
a. To curb the Big Bash dominance in high-TV play
b. To narrow the team tiers (I.e. push tier 2 and 3 into the bottom of tier 1, and rein in the überteams)

The rules tweaks:
1. Piling On works like mighty blow, put you have to be adjacent to the victim and go prone, in order to use the modifier.
2. Fouling gets a generic +1 modifier
3. Sneaky Git is rewritten. When a sneaky git is sent off (including for a SW) just place him in the KO box.
4. Recommended Spiralling Expenses: SE kick in at 180, with steps of 10.
5. Concessions no longer yield extra cash
6. Wizards cost 200K
7. Bank: Petty cash rule deleted. Cash count towards TV, however during the postgame (or team creation) you can hide up to 100K. This cash is unavailable until the next postgame, but does not count towards TV.

The Rosters
The Major Buffs
1. Gobbo teams get 0-3 trolls and ReRolls for 50K. (Also see Sneaky Git)
2. Halfling team gets split into Linemen (AV7) and 0-6 catchers (AG4, 50K). 50K rerolls.
3. Ogre teams get 60K rerolls and ogres for 130K. Snotlings become 6136, same skills, and titchy lets them ignore tackle when blocked.
The Minor Buffs
4. Human teams gets AV8 on the catchers, and the ogre for 130K
5. Vampire teams gets Thick Skull on the thralls.
6. Underworld teams get 60K rerolls
7. Khemri ThroRa and BlitzRa gain Thick Skull. Tomb Guardians become AV8 with Break Tackle, but lose decay, for 110K
The Minor Nerfs
8. Dwarf slayers replace block with Juggernaut
9. Wood Elf wardancers replace Dodge with Fend
10. Orc blitzers cost 90K
11. Undead mummies replace Mighty Blow with Grab - Long term compensation buff: Mummies gain G-access.
12. Amazon blitzers replace Block with Wrestle - Long term compensation buff: All amazon gain A-access.

Cheers
Martin

[nick_nameless]

Sneaky Git? wow...that's a really powerful skill now. For Goblins, anyways.

[Hitonagashi]

Are you sure the mummy thing is a nerf? I'd call gaining G access a massive buff myself?

Maybe short term TT tournament nerf, but not in a long term league.

[Tourach]

Are you sure the mummy thing is a nerf? I'd call gaining G access a massive buff myself?

Maybe short term TT tournament nerf, but not in a long term league.

It is exactly that, short term nerf and long term buff, undead do not do well on high tr (unless the mummies rolls doubles ).

[spubbbba]

It also makes mummies much harder to skill up, they will be even worse than Black Orcs or Nurgle warriors as at least those can have a reasonable chance at scoring a touchdown and even getting a completion is not that unlikely.

With the loss of MB I don’t think mummies would take that many General skills after block. I’d say 1st skill would be either block for reliability or MB to get to 16 quicker after that he’d probably take the same skills as before so guard and stand firm, BT would be an option as would frenzy and tackle from G skills.

In a developed team losing a mummy would be a disaster, whilst now if he doesn’t roll doubles then the only skill I really want on him is guard. The other strength choices are nice but debatable if they are worth the TV.

Oh and undead do suck at high TV.

[plasmoid]

Hi Spubbbba,
spot on (IMO).
One small thing though: Starting with Grab prevents them from getting Frenzy. Clever, eh

(Oh, our playtest team has played 7 games without skilling either mummy. A bit unlikely perhaps, but it certainly showcases another advantage of starting with MB)

[plasmoid]

Hi Hitonagashi,
Tourach is right. I've edited first post, to make that clearer.
Cheers
Martin

[theghr]

Very nice initiative. But do you think Dark Elves and Norse are about equal in the long term? And are Undead really better than Dark Elves in the long term?

[Thadrin]

Still prefer ian and Tom's POn change to this.
4 is redundant. Spiralling expenses has always been intended to be adjustable based on the league set up.
Hate the Gobbo and Halfling buffs with a passion. Really REALLY hate them.
I wonder why anyone would ever take an Amazon catcher again if the whole team gets A access.

[DoubleSkulls]

I think its worth bearing in mind that Plasmoid is intentionally improving the tier 2/3 teams to make the gap between (as well as within) tiers narrower. I don't agree with that, but these are his house rules. I think the other constraint is he's aiming for the smallest possible change to achieve that goal. You are right about 'zon catchers.

[plasmoid]

Hi Nick_nameless,
sorry for the delay.
I'm actually glad that the first comment is about the new Sneaky Git!

For the record, I'm not interested in improving all weak skills. SG gets buffed with a purpose:
First to replace some of the blood lost with the nerf to PiOn, and secondly to serve as a further threat to teams that rely heavily on PiOn.

I think the brilliant part of the suggested SG is that the player is still taken off the pitch - so SG can't easily be used to gain the numbers advantage in an all out fouling spree. That being said, I think this SG will appeal to:
*Gobbo secret weapons. Obviously. This is an intentional buff to gobbos - and will help a bit with those games where you're forced to field your SWs on a 1-turn drive at the end of 1st half.
*Teams that take a beating and have a hard time affording send-offs. (Most AV7 and stunty teams)
*Teams with expensive linemen, who can rarely afford to foul.
*Teams with a DP.

Cheers
Martin

[plasmoid]

Hi thegr,

Very nice initiative. But do you think Dark Elves and Norse are about equal in the long term? And are Undead really better than Dark Elves in the long term?

you seem a bit obessed with those darkies
Very well, I don't think they're equal, but I do think they are about equal.
I made the team decisions based on data collected from around 30 leagues, hoping that way to eliminate the influence of individual leagues and coaches. And in those data Darkies are good, but not outside 'tier 1'. So - I didn't want to open myself to critique that 'something will always be on top, and you'll just keep knocking the leader down until everything has been nerfed' - therefore I'm not messing with the good teams.

As for Undead, nope, undead aren't better long term. In fact their performance drops off rather sharply.
That's why I've combined the short term nerf with a long term buff.

Cheers
Martin

[plasmoid]

Hi Thadrian and Ian,
Ian - thanks for clarifying. I've added it to first post, just to be clear.

Still prefer ian and Tom's POn change to this.

I think Ian and Tom's PO change doesn't make enough of a difference against AV7. And I think that's a fatal flaw. The stats for my version come out almost identical to those for LRB4 PiOn (only reroll armor) - but as the skill is weaker, my version compensates by making the attacker go prone less.
But, in a nutshell, I'd take the LRB4 version over Ian/Tom's.

4 is redundant. Spiralling expenses has always been intended to be adjustable based on the league set up.

True. But lost of leagues will go with whatever is recommended.
I've edited 1st post to reflect that it is just the recommandation that is changed.

Hate the Gobbo and Halfling buffs with a passion. Really REALLY hate them.

Fair enough. But do you hate them because they buff the teams significantly - or are you OK with buffing, but just hate the specific way it has been done here.

I wonder why anyone would ever take an Amazon catcher again if the whole team gets A access.

You're not the first to say that, and the more I think about it, the less I get it!
I mean, sure, if you don't think catch skill serves any purpose on a running team, then you're right.
But if not, why wouldn't you pay the 20K to get '6SPPs' and a head start on the development curve? Any linechick taking catch will always be that step behind. Fast forward a bit and when your catcher has catch +3 skills, your lineman would require an additinal 20SPPs to have the same statline.

Thanks for your feedback,
Martin

[Juriel]

Overall I like this. I never was a fan of intentional tiers (the design philosophy for which can pretty much be summarized as 'elves rock, humans suck').

Rather than make the Human Catcher AV8, I would've given Fend to their Linemen, for a mobility boost and a different gameplay style than the rest.
Goblins are suddenly a real team with the 3rd troll and Sneaky Git omg boost.
Halflings getting AG4 seems like the wrong approach to take. There is no way to position against them, really, they'll just walk through.
Khemri changes are all great, making them actually different from the other bashies right from the start.
Amazon Catcher IS useless now. She should just get the basic Human Catcher stats, to help with the team's lack of speed.

[spubbbba]

Hi Spubbbba,
spot on (IMO).
One small thing though: Starting with Grab prevents them from getting Frenzy. Clever, eh

(Oh, our playtest team has played 7 games without skilling either mummy. A bit unlikely perhaps, but it certainly showcases another advantage of starting with MB)

Ah, well I like that change even more then, i'd forgotten about that restiction with Grab. For me grab falls into the “one of those skills that is nice to get for free but not really worth 20TV” category. So I think that is an interesting change as the lack of MB will hamper mummies skilling up but once they get block, MB and guard they will be real beasts.
You will still have the issue of lame min-maxers keeping them at low TV with tooled up mummies and wights, a ghoul or 2 with block (plus one with SH) and the rest fodder zombies (maybe 1 or 2 with DP). But that would only be an issue online and frankly there is not much you can do to stop people being lame and it was much worse in lrb4 with the Count.

As to Amazons the change seems ok, not sure if it will make much of a difference overall but then I think the fundamental issues with the list are the mass dodge and identical stat line and I know you don’t want to go for such a drastic change.