Narrow Tier BB - 2012

[Mossman]

And another huge buff to elves is sudden death in overtime. In lrb4 you had to play all eigth turns in overtime but in CRP sudden death is standard. This means that elves don't have to stall any longer when they win the ball in ot and instead they can just 2 turn score or perhaps even 1 turn score. This makes OT a lot easier for elves, especially since they usually don't have very much players left by then.

[garion]

No you didn't get 8 turns. That was just a bug on fumbbl. Bit yeah it was better.

[Mossman]

Okay.

[cbbakke]

And another huge buff to elves is sudden death in overtime. In lrb4 you had to play all eigth turns in overtime but in CRP sudden death is standard. This means that elves don't have to stall any longer when they win the ball in ot and instead they can just 2 turn score or perhaps even 1 turn score. This makes OT a lot easier for elves, especially since they usually don't have very much players left by then.

I would think that sudden death OT is more likely to favor a basher team since they are less likely to be short players against an elven team and unless things have gone very poorly for them they should have the elves down several players.

Of course elves can score with few players but percentage wise I would think the bashers get the edge on it.

[garion]

Naa it marginally favours elf teams more, if an elf team wins the toss in overtime they win. there is nothing any bash team can do to stop a two or three turn elf or skaven touchdown. But if bash win the toss elves have always got a reasonable chance of getting the ball free with risky plays.

But really overtime is just decided by the toss more often than not.

[DoubleSkulls]

They could learn how to defend better....

Stopping a 3 player elf drive is easy

[cbbakke]

Naa it marginally favours elf teams more, if an elf team wins the toss in overtime they win. there is nothing any bash team can do to stop a two or three turn elf or skaven touchdown. But if bash win the toss elves have always got a reasonable chance of getting the ball free with risky plays.

But really overtime is just decided by the toss more often than not.

if a basher team faces an elf team in OT it would appear to me that the bashers have some ability to play defense otherwise they would not have got that far. If the basher team is up 3 players going into OT which is pretty likely they have a very good chance on defense of getting a stop. Sure elves can still score but I would give the advantage to the basher.

Basher teams could also take a few pass defense skills too

[Hitonagashi]

Naa it marginally favours elf teams more, if an elf team wins the toss in overtime they win. there is nothing any bash team can do to stop a two or three turn elf or skaven touchdown. But if bash win the toss elves have always got a reasonable chance of getting the ball free with risky plays.

But really overtime is just decided by the toss more often than not.

if a basher team faces an elf team in OT it would appear to me that the bashers have some ability to play defense otherwise they would not have got that far. If the basher team is up 3 players going into OT which is pretty likely they have a very good chance on defense of getting a stop. Sure elves can still score but I would give the advantage to the basher.

Basher teams could also take a few pass defense skills too

Naw, says nothing about their defensive abilities.

Elf team 8 turn stalls first half, bash team 8 turn stalls second half. Both presumably have good offenses and poor defenses.

And really, the main people favoured by OT are Lizardmen with a +ag skink

[Xadie]

And really, the main people favoured by OT are Lizardmen with a +ag skink

Yeah those stat-freaks have to be hunted, POed and fouled on sight until their just demise

[garion]

Naa it marginally favours elf teams more, if an elf team wins the toss in overtime they win. there is nothing any bash team can do to stop a two or three turn elf or skaven touchdown. But if bash win the toss elves have always got a reasonable chance of getting the ball free with risky plays.

But really overtime is just decided by the toss more often than not.

if a basher team faces an elf team in OT it would appear to me that the bashers have some ability to play defense otherwise they would not have got that far. If the basher team is up 3 players going into OT which is pretty likely they have a very good chance on defense of getting a stop. Sure elves can still score but I would give the advantage to the basher.

Basher teams could also take a few pass defense skills too

Naw, says nothing about their defensive abilities.

Elf team 8 turn stalls first half, bash team 8 turn stalls second half. Both presumably have good offenses and poor defenses.

+1 it is harder for elves to score in turn 8 than it is to score in two or three turns.... FAR harder.

[zerodemon]

I'd say a FULL elf team is pretty hard to stop when they have the ball, but not impossible. By the time OT rolls around, the elf team is going to have generally lost most of the team to KOs and Injuries while the bash team will remain mostly intact. Defending with 9 orcs against 7 elves is a lot easier to do, especially with a nice deep zone defence and considering you'll at least tie up a couple of those players on the line.

If the bash team has done their job efficiently on the half they received, there could be an even more significant difference in player numbers. It all evens out. Yes, elves can score quickly, but if you have an extra 2+ players, you can form a very effective defence and still have players deep in your own half to bring down even the most well thought out attack.

[Shteve0]

Threadomancy, but:

I like the ideas of the NTBB, and in fact the vast majority of the changes. However, I think the changes to the Amazon roster do go too far. I've explained this before and fear I may sound a bit like I'm banging on about it, but I think the following two (unintended) side effects hurt the build.

a) giving wrestle to the only S access players is a nerf to the long term team development
b) giving diving catch to the catcher in fact strengthens the team in the short term

I totally agree with the sentiment behind short term nerf/long term boost, and the A access is an elegant way to approach that, though I now believe that it undercosts the linewomen. I'd also argue (and have done elsewhere) that the lack of a ST3 catcher is what hurts humans, whereas the design of the catcher on an amazon roster with spam A access is redundant, so I've (more or less) swapped the two. That obviously brings its own problems - avoiding blodge homogenisation and the reduction in overall human speed, to name but two - which I've tried to deal with as delicately and simply as possible in my suggestion for a proposed alternate roster (in the event that 2013 brings a new revision). Anyway, here goes nothing!

Amazon and Human Rosters.jpg

Thanks and best

Steve

[Hitonagashi]

That Amazon roster is crazy strong Steve. I think you massively underestimate how good A access combined with G access is.

For example:
*All your blitzers can now be mb/po/tackle/jumpup players with no doubles.
*All your linewomen can be blodge/sidestep/diving tackle players.

There's no reason you'd ever take a catcher, and a thrower would be only used for leader access.

The human changes aren't too bad though.

[Shteve0]

Interesting. The A access changes have already made it into NTBB, without the linewoman price bump.

I admit I've not played FUMBBL style long term leagues, but would this lineup be more powerful than, say, Pro Elves (more speed, 4AG, same cost linemen, same line skill access)? Or a whole chaos lineup of Block/Tackle/MB/PO (all GS normal skills) players?

Pro Elf 60k 6347 None GA
Amazon 60k 6337 Dodge GA

And, while you can in theory go down that route you suggested, would you? You're just as vulnerable to tackle/PO, and there's no guard or ball handling in that setup. I prefer the blitzers to go Guard/StandFirm and the 3 line players to go Wrestle/Fend (all currently normals). Planning more than two skills on 8+ players in a typical league seems crazy.

I'd personally take this catcher version purely for her speed, despite her vulnerability. The thrower I don't take on the current roster, where she's even worse value. I actually reckon the catcher change makes the thrower option more appealing than ever and gives the team a realistic pass outlet, but there you go.