Garions Rules Finished

[spubbbba]

Is it any more stupid than babe with alcohol helping wake a player up and 2 of them being even more effective but a 3rd useless?

Since the babes were just invented in lrb5 then you can change the fluff to anything you want. There have been various special rules for the effects of potions or being drunk in BB and WHFB so you can get quite a lot of leeway from it. Arguing about realism in a fantasy world that has wizards, mutants, the undead and modern technology like chainsaws is kind of silly.

The other option would be to differentiate between sent off and Ko’d players but that seems like an unnecessary complication.

[garion]

Is it any more stupid than babe with alcohol helping wake a player up and 2 of them being even more effective but a 3rd useless?

Yes it is more ridiculous. Alcohol has been used in the past to revive people. You will no doubt have seen this happen in many westerns and other films over the years.

However even if we over look this one change and forgive the smelly fluff that explains it. Then what about Pile On, there is no way you can explain how this skill would work when the rule is you can only Po when you broke the Av first time. It just doesn't make sense. LRB4 version makes sense and the CRP version makes sense, this doesnt at all.

I really think plasmoid should re-think the change, allow the stack etc, just make it so you have to roll from Av again. That way Claw wouldn't have to be made so vanilla and it would make sense.

[Darkson]

But in Bloodbowl a foul has always been a sending off offence. That should not change to fit the purpose of one little rule. Also why would a babe help the player come back from the sin bin.

It makes no sense.

Also this is the wrong thread for discussion about that stupid rule. When Secret weapon rolls are just better, and have been tried and tested and worked perfectly.

When the ref sent you off in 2nd edition, I seem to recall having to roll on a table to see what box it was, one of which was a KO, but I don't have my book to hand to check.

But I can't see why Babes are an issue- just say they don't work on players sent to the KO box for fouling - problem solved.

(Edit - I hate typing on my smart phone!)

[garion]

When the ref sent you off in 2nd edition, I seem to recall having to roll on a table to see what box it was, one of which was a KO, but I don't have my book to hand to check.

But I can't see why Babes are an issue- just say they don't work on players sent to the KO box for fouling - problem solved.

Yup I agree, add that in and problem solved.

My memory is hazzy as I only played a handful of games then, but I think there was a 50 50 roll somewhere in 2nd ed but it was to do with secret weapon rolls. I think they could get ejected and then brought back into the game if your lawyer found a flaw in the referees ruling during the current drive of the match. This was determined by a 50/50 roll, I don't think you could do this for fouls though, but I may be wrong?

[Rhyoth]

Regarding babes, i can easily see why they could help : their .. assets can easily distrat every man, including the ref ...

Then what about Pile On, there is no way you can explain how this skill would work when the rule is you can only Po when you broke the Av first time. It just doesn't make sense. LRB4 version makes sense and the CRP version makes sense, this doesnt at all.

From a fluff perspective, iI don't see anything wrong with plasmoid's version. In fact, i'd say it makes more sense than lrb 4's one : the PiOner sees his opponent helpless on the ground (i.e. AV broken), then he seize the opportunity, and pound him ; however, he can't do it if his opponent is stilll "conscious" and able to escape/roll away...

[dode74]

Yes it is more ridiculous. Alcohol has been used in the past to revive people. You will no doubt have seen this happen in many westerns and other films over the years.

And women have been used in the past to distract men. You will no doubt have seen a version of this happen in many spy thrillers where a honeytrap is used (which happens in real life, too), or in films such as Cannonball Run.

[garion]

No. If the are concious it shouldn't make it impossible to Po that should be the players choice. It doesn't make any sense at all to make it physically impossible to try.

[garion]

Yes it is more ridiculous. Alcohol has been used in the past to revive people. You will no doubt have seen this happen in many westerns and other films over the years.

And women have been used in the past to distract men. You will no doubt have seen a version of this happen in many spy thrillers where a honeytrap is used (which happens in real life, too), or in films such as Cannonball Run.

Yes but refs are goblins ogres dwarves etc. Plus it is just really lame saying a girl distracts the ref, as darkson says - just don't allow babes to help and that rule is ok.

[dode74]

Nothing wrong with a bit of inter-racial lovin'

[tchatter]

Leave Pile On as it is in CRP but make it work like 2nd edition Heroic Tackle.

You had to roll to see if the foul was spotted, then roll on the Penalty Table:

1-3 = Stunned Box
4-5 = KO'd Box
6 = Injured Box

Add +1 if the penalty was blatant, and +1 if it was for Arguing With The Referee.

[Darkson]

Plus it is just really lame saying a girl distracts the ref, as darkson says.

Don't put words in to my mouth, I never said that - that's your opinion, not mine.


And I've now found my BB Companion, and then you could get sent off to the Stunned box (the 50/50 roll you recalled was indded for Secret Weapons, but nothing to do with fouling).

And finally, arguing against a rule "because it makes no sense" is, imo, ridiculous - intercepting before the ball is thrown "makes no sense", seeing how hard you hit someone, and then deciding that you actually hit them a bit harder (MB after the AV roll) "makes no sense", but they work as game mechanics, and that's what is important.

If SG made players go to the KO box, I would have no issues on the game mechanics that Babes would make it easier for them to return - whether I thought it was a rule that was needed, or whether "Babes don't work on sent off SG players" would be better is a different arguement.

[garion]

Plus it is just really lame saying a girl distracts the ref, as darkson says.

Don't put words in to my mouth, I never said that - that's your opinion, not mine.

Lol, sorry, that was from a phone, it put a full stop in the wrong place. I have corrected it now.

[garion]

Leave Pile On as it is in CRP but make it work like 2nd edition Heroic Tackle.

You had to roll to see if the foul was spotted, then roll on the Penalty Table:

1-3 = Stunned Box
4-5 = KO'd Box
6 = Injured Box

Add +1 if the penalty was blatant, and +1 if it was for Arguing With The Referee.

Yup that imo is a far better idea.

But anyway, enough about those changes.

Back to mine now please

[plasmoid]

Hi Garion,
hate it all you want, but you do seem to be in the minority when it comes to not being able to stomach the fluff.
And personally I think refs of any species wouldn't mind a beer

Cheers
Martin

[plasmoid]

Hi Garion,
I was offline for a while, so I haven't seen your last posts, if you've made any - except the long red one. But:

You're welcome to move this discussion to the NTBB thread if you think this is turning into a threadnap. By all means do.
Also, in reply to your asking, yes, you're perfectly welcome to explain why each roster change is un-fluffy.

Now, for your objection(s) to Pile-On:
Actually - people will not be "piling on all over the place", because you can't go prone on the armor roll. So if you don't break armor, you remain standing. And if you've followed up (to potentially use Pile-On) you might well be looking at a blockback.

I know you've played with the +1. I have too. But you haven't played with the new SG. You brush it off as a non-change, but as stated, it does make sense and has been recieved very well. You seem to think it'll be worthless. On the other end of the scale I have 2 coaches screaming Balance Issue. I look forward to seeing it in play. I think it certainly adresses the main problem of a dedicated fouler in CRP: That's a lot of TV to have sent off for the rest of the game. If he can come back, the TV isn't lost, making it a much better (doubles) choice.

But back to Pile-On. Your other ("fluff") objection is that you can only pile on the injury roll. Not the armor roll. I fail to see how this is problematically unrealistic.
In LRB4, the PileOn was armor only. Never a problem apparantly. But how is it significantly more realistic that you could strike a guy on the chin stunning him, leaving you mysteriously unable to flatten him even though he was momentarily defenseless? Weird. One might equally well argue that piling onto an opponent who is unharmed (armor not broken) will just let him roll away from your attack, making a pile-on very hard.
I'll take the latter realism over the former just fine.

You also say that PileOn is the monster issue of CRP. Actually, as you know, PileOn has been in for 25 years. So I guess removing it would be unfluffy. The 'CRP+' version is the weakest one yet - so when you claim that stunties will be "slaughtered with ease" then you really haven't looked at the math at all.
Heck, let's do a numbers game: 3 versions of 1 mutation + 2 skills against a standard goblin. Stats are for after a knockdown, and are presented as KO+/straight-cas[Death!]. (It's in percentages).
Now guess the edition - no peeking
version 1: 68.8/37.9[4.5], version 2: 52.2/28.7[3.5], version 3: 68.9/48.2[8.0]

Bottom line: If I'm taking anything from this discussion it's that I should do a proper write-up for the skill tweaks.
Duly noted.


Cheers
Martin