NTBB Milestone!

[plasmoid]

Hi all,
an NZ league has just started with full NTBB rules for a season. The teams are:
1x Ogre
2x Dwarf
1 Kemeri
1x Undead
2x Chaos
1x Pro Elves
1x Brittonia
I'm glad to see that the nerfed dwarfs and undead still get taken. I'm also glad to see someone take the (buffed) khemri. And I think there is no way ogres would be in a league with 2 dwarfs if it hadn't been for the titchy buff. Oh, and even though Brets aren't part of NTBB, I won't complain

[Mossman]

Glad to hear it, because your list didn't quite read like that

It may have sounded like that since I talked more about the negative stuff than the positive. But if you count the number of times I was positive and negative over your changes you will see that I was positive more times. Also some of the positive changes are so important (the nerf to clawpomb for example) that it outweighs all the negative changes by itself. That's why I think NTBB is a much better ruleset than the current version of CRP.

Vampires:Humans are 6337 Block, 6337 dodge and 6337 AV+ - so they could be 6337 Thick Skull. The Bloodlust idea is nice(!) but I'd love to isolate the roster changes to the actual rosters where possible.

It's perfectly fine if thralls are weaker than other humans since they are only servants to vampires with only a basic understanding of the game and not professional blood bowl players like the other humans. Therefore it's perfectly fine if they are only 6337.

But if they really need to be equal to the other humans then I like 6338 for them more since that is much better fluff wise than 6337 thick skull.

Sneaky Git: So far it has gotten a very good reception (with a few more coaches saying 'too weak' than 'too strong'. I think what balances it is that your player still gets sent off.

With a few assists it will always be a greater chance that the target is removed than the fouler. So if you are also able to get your fouler back nothing will prevent mass fouling. With this change people are going to foul every turn. But perhaps that's a good thing? Hard to tell.

Coincidentally, you mentioned that the inducement system favors elf teams. Well, now bashy teams too can use the 50K Bloodweiser Babe to recover their Sneaky Gits. OooOoh

That's a good point. Some good things will definitiately come from this change but I'm still doubtful of it.

[zerodemon]

I'm probably the only one against this, but I don't like the generic +1 to fouling (seems it's in just to nerf pile on further which, as you said is now just an injury re-roll anyway.) Other than that, I like this ruleset. We'd already made Pile On/Mighty Blow incompatible, but this is a more elegant fix. We may use it (without the foul change) for our next league.

The Human, Khemri and Ogre changes make the most sense. I'll be adding those updated teams in to my own roster document for our house-rule team list (the one with the Chaos teams and updated Amazons (9 games so far with the 'zons and they are sufficiently different that they have a 3W/2D/4L record against tier 1 teams.)

Great work on this document.

[Rhyoth]

Vampires:Humans are 6337 Block, 6337 dodge and 6337 AV+ - so they could be 6337 Thick Skull. The Bloodlust idea is nice(!) but I'd love to isolate the roster changes to the actual rosters where possible.

It's perfectly fine if thralls are weaker than other humans since they are only servants to vampires with only a basic understanding of the game and not professional blood bowl players like the other humans. Therefore it's perfectly fine if they are only 6337.

But if they really need to be equal to the other humans then I like 6338 for them more since that is much better fluff wise than 6337 thick skull.

If your main issue is fluff, a good solution would be to rename Thick Skull : after all, Skeleton aren't really thick-skulled either, so this change seemss needed anyway.
So, if Thick skull was renamed, for example, "Relentless", would it still bother you ? Personnally, i'd find it quite logical.


@ plasmoid : great work overall. i think i'd make some lobbying to adopt CRP+ in our league, although we will probably make a couple of adjustements.
Particulary, the item i have more trouble with (excepet AV8 catchers, but we already covered that) your Spiralling expenses : it seems extremely severe when combined with the Bank rule.
I've already seen several newbies struggling because they went too soon too high, and i don't want to penalize them even more. So, if we were to change SE, we would probably do the opposite : make them start sooner, but with a wider increment (say 1 600/1 500 k with 20/25 k steps ?) : this change would be, imo, more pedagogic, and still quite effective if combined with the Bank rule.


Also, while we'll try a couple of NTTB teams, but we'll probably won't go for halflings positionnals. So, i was wondering if you had ever tested something like those 3 changes :
_ Sure Feet on all 'flings for free : at least it would allow them to outrun dwarves !
_ Strong Arm allowing Long Pass with TTM, with an additionnal -1 modifier (maybe coupled with Loner on Trees+50 k Chief, or a modifier on landing roll depending of the pass range...)
_ G access for all 'flings : sure it's quite debattable fluffwise, but at least it would give them some future prospects (and i don't see how Block or Dauntless could be overpowered on ST2 AV6 stunties)

[plasmoid]

Hi Mossman and Rhyoth,
sorry - I don't know how I missed this. I must have been buried in work. I hope you're still hanging around

@Mossman - yes, I agree that 6337 would be perfectly fine for a weak human!
Except I'd then have to come up with some other buff for the team.
I don't see the fluff problem with Thick Skull. After all, Thick Skull does not imply a thicker cranium, but rather a general toughness which can be built up through training.
I could see 6338 working too. My main issue with it is that 6338 is such an iconic statline that you couldn't have 6338 without the price hike to 50K. And with the price hike I'm not sure how much of a buff it would be. (Also, TS works with bloodlust, which I think is rather neat).

@Rhyoth - thanks for your kind words.
I'm always thrilled to hear someone who might adopt the rules. If you manage to sway your league, please let me know how this turns out. If not, come play in the MBBL - it will have an NTBB division by next season.

As for further house ruling NTBB - be my guest
But it is worth noting that the SE in NTBB are just the recommended levels for SE. The option to change it is very much still open.
As for the Bank, both Galak and I are quite open to Bank at 150K - I'm just slightly concerned that if you change both then the total impact is likely to be very small...

As for halflings, it's quite trciky. I don't have any experience with any of those solutions.
G skills would probably have the greatest in game effect. And it is interesting as no other stunty team has it. Expect a lot of blodge. But it won't work until the flings pick up some skills, so if you think the starting team needs help, then G-access isn't the solution.
Messing with TTM also has a lot of appeal, but it will also affect the other stunty sides. I've always like a +1 modifier to the landing roll of the player isn't holding the ball. That opens up a lot of neat options, but not TTM.
Sure Feet would do something right from the start. It might be seen as un-fluffy though. Thick Skull might be considered fluffier for the little fatties(?)

Cheers
Martin

[MattDakka]

In my opinion (I have been playing the fat little buggers for a while), Halflings would need some of these changes:
- AG 4 (you already covered this with your Catcher addition to the roster, I like it);
- Stunty countering Tackle either when dodging or when blocked (reason: playing against Chaos Dwarfs and Dwarfs is very very hard, even at TV 1000);
- No Take Root on Treemen (or at least a rule to unroot, for example by rolling a 6 at the end of the turn. Take Root would still slow them down but, with the chance of unroot they could be useful during the half; Halflings can't afford to have a lot of Rerolls to cope with Take Root if they want to get inducements and have some reserves as well), OR
- Take Root as now but 0-3 Treemen in the roster, at least they could protect the ball carrier better before trying the TTM, and even if one or two of them take root, the third should be able to get closer to the End Zone for the TTM.
- Cheaper Master Chef, at 50k. Reason: sometimes he's not so useful, because he fails to steal the rerolls.

[mattwhile]

http://www.level10.org/bloodbowl/index.php?section=main

Our league in Daventry will be using these rules from next season, which starts in June/July.

[Shteve0]

Hi Martin

Is there a pdf for the rules pack somewhere? I can't access your site at the mo.

Thanks! Steve

[plasmoid]

Site Down until tomorrow. Just PM mé your email, og you need it before then

[plasmoid]

Hi Matt,
I'm thrilled to hear that!
I'd love to hear more about the league, season, etc., and I hope you'll send me some feedback and thoughts.
I'll send you a PM.
Cheers
Martin

[mattwhile]

Received and replied.

[harroguk]

Just posting in the thread to make sure I get emails about future posts here.

As Matt said we are going to be taking on your NTBB and CRP+ rules next season despite a little bit of resistance to change, mainly the SG change (Feeling is that it makes a dedicated fouler a requirement for teams) and the Bank limit (People seem to be more accepting of a 300k limit than a 150k limit feeling that the 150k is too restrictive against the AG teams who may lose multiple positionals in a single game and not be able to replace them).

Not saying that I agree/disagree with either of these concerns however we will play it out with teams ranging from 1,000k to 2,200k (I will be carrying out stat/skill conversions where required) over a 10 game season)

[dode74]

Well, I posted this in house rules

My site also says house rules in 2 places. Maybe I should add a few more. Just not sure how many

Is "CRP+" no longer being thought of as a house rule? Your new format leaves this ambiguous.

[plasmoid]

Really? That wasn't my intention.

Quoting the opening paragraph (emphasis added):
The NTBB (Narrow Tier Blood Bowl) Rules consists of 2 components - each can be used without the other, but I recommend using them together:
1) The CRP+ List: 8 house rules to improve CRP Blood Bowl and 2 buffs to the underwhelming tier 1 teams (Humans and Khemri) - all co-written and approved by the two most prominent members of the BBRC, Tom Anders and Ian Williams.
2) The NTBB Rosters - house rule roster tweaks to 10 of the BB teams, to put all of the teams on more equal footing.

should it say 'approved for playtest by...'
Cheers
Martin

[dode74]

My bad - was reading it on my phone and I may have missed that part.