Passing SPP.

[Scally09]

I apologise in advance if this has been discussed 'to death' before but I couldn't find a topic through the search function.

Some people in my league are asking why there is not a greater emphasis on passing in Blood Bowl. It is being seen as 'High risk/Low reward' when only 1SPP is gained from a pass. It is being suggested that SPP increases with the distance thrown.

0SPP - Quick Pass.
1SPP - Short Pass.
2SPP - Long Pass.
3SPP - Long Bomb.

0 for a Quick stands out but this is to discourage people that sit in the backfield 'farming' SPP by Quick Passing and Handing off every turn they can. With no Tackle Zones around this is even fairly safe if 2 players stood next to each other in a cage are doing it to stall out a turn 8 TD.

The proposed changes would increase the reward for the throwing play for attempting further throws and make Passing skills more desirable. Also the passing game may become more worthwhile in a game currently dominated by the 'Bash' teams and skills like Claw/Piling On/Mighty Blow.

These are the opinions of players in my league. I agree to an extent, in that I would like to see more focus brought to the 'flair', high risk/high reward part of the game. While I certainly don't want to take the 'Blood' out of Blood Bowl, I do think that 'bash' play is a disproportionately large part of the game now. I would like to see teams other than Wood Elves and High Elves at least take a stab at passing.

I would love to hear the opinions of the community at large though and find out if this (or something like it) was ever discussed during rules meetings or has been playtested. Even if it's a bad idea I'd like to know why.

[DoubleSkulls]

You are right that one reason there isn't much passing is that the risk/reward ratio is out of alignment. However I don't think the SPPs are really the primary reward - its the situational benefit from moving the ball to another player who may well not yet have moved this turn - enabling you to move the ball a long way in a single turn.

That is counter-acted by two things.
1) The chance of failure is relatively high - and the downside is a loss of possession, which is also a fairly big penalty in most situations.
2) Scoring quickly is not advisable much of the time since clock control is important.

[garion]

also this is just a massive buff to elves who are already the easiest races to SPP farm and skill up very very quickly.

[dode74]

To be fair, it makes farming SPP from passes riskier, since it's no longer a 2+/2+ roll to get an SPP. It's now a 3+/2+ just to get that one SPP, with more available if you're willing to take the risk. I think this would make it harder for elves to get SPP from.

As for passing risk/reward, I came up with a proposal some time ago which you might be interested in: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=35377

[neverworking]

0 for a Quick stands out but this is to discourage people that sit in the backfield 'farming' SPP by Quick Passing and Handing off every turn they can. With no Tackle Zones around this is even fairly safe if 2 players stood next to each other in a cage are doing it to stall out a turn 8 TD.

Usually not without real costs though. Early in a drive it requires you to hold 2 players out of the flow of the play and each attempt increases the odds of losing a valuable re-roll either on the attempt in question, or forcing more pick up rolls in a subsequent turn. Generally speaking, I smile when I see my opponent attempting that. Late in a drive in a cage as you suggest, a failure can easily see the ball scatter outside of the cage and lead to a missed TD so I'd welcome that too.

[burgun824]

As a house rule I like the idea. It's simple. However, I think you'll find that the only teams that will be able to fully take advantage of it are AG4 teams. So...Elves.

[Afroman]

As a house rule I like the idea. It's simple. However, I think you'll find that the only teams that will be able to fully take advantage of it are AG4 teams. So...Elves.

This could be mitigated if the SPP wasn't based on distance, but on difficulty. Then the reward would be tightly link to the risk.
Something like this:

Throw roll/ # spp
2+ = 0 spp
3+ = 1 spp
4+ = 2 spp
5+ = 3 spp
6+ = 4 spp

After all when a player can throw a long bomb on 2+, what else is there for him to learn?
Now if he does it in a bunch of TZ's, that would teach him something .

[burgun824]

I like it Afroman. Great idea. Hey Scally09....

[Scally09]

So...Elves.

This could be mitigated if the SPP wasn't based on distance, but on difficulty. Then the reward would be tightly link to the risk.
Something like this:

Throw roll/ # spp
2+ = 0 spp
3+ = 1 spp
4+ = 2 spp
5+ = 3 spp
6+ = 4 spp

This is a cool idea, and something I hadn't considered. Having seen the responses and been thinking for a day or two on it. I'm not sure if Passing should have the potential to earn as much (or more) SPP than a Touchdown.

DoubleSkulls seems pretty right in that the situational reward of moving the ball is the greater benefit of passing. If there was a greater reward for passing people might further stall a touchdown in order to keep possession of the ball. To that end I think my first proposed idea for extra SPP will be canned. I will suggest Afromans 'difficulty chart' to my league tomorrow and maybe next season we will incorporate it as a house rule, after some more discussion.

Thanks guys, you helped a lot. I would still like to know if Passing SPP was talked about at any LRB rules discussions and why SPP for passing is 1 regardless of range or difficulty in the current rules. Maybe there's an important balancing issue I've missed, like Elves being able to farm more SPP than other teams.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Yeah Elves would totally abuse any bigger spps for passing, and they already earn spps way faster than all the other teams.

[Tritex]

I like Afromans suggestion as it appears more balanced overall

[Digger Goreman]

Faulty premise... totally 'elfish suggestion....

[Smurf]

So if you get accurate and strong arm you get less SPP and if you have better AG.

According to that my AG5 strong arm, accurate thrower will get no SPP. Unless after rolling the die I opt not to use skills. That is Long Bombing on a 4+ will earn the guy points.

IMO, you either pass and farm all those 1pts or you don't bother. Will it make coaches pass... I doubt it!

[Afroman]

I can only see it being more lucrative than it is today.

Today:
You pass when you have to and only as a last resort.
No matter what you will get at most 1 SPP.
You see pass as a way to farm spp when you deem it safe.

With my suggestion:
You pass when you have to and only as a last resort.
You get rewarded when you do something risky(successfully).
You will not be as eager to farm pass spp.

I don't think the OP was talking about making it easier to farm pass-spp. I think the point was to balance the risk of passing with a more adequate reward. I believe this may make some people risk the odd pass from now and then instead of running the ball.
Elves will still be better at passing but the will have the same hard time getting spp for passing as everyone else.

[Darkson]

Whilst not convinced on the idea, not sure why it's dismissed as more " elfy"? Do elves roll 4+ easier than other races?