Need some help to lose team rerolls

mattski · Post by **mattski** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:29 pm

Just trying a few things out in my head for a near vanilla league that I play in. One of the things I like about BBowl is the natural wastage that occurs as far as players. No matter how good they are eventually something bad will happen and off into the sunset they go leaving nothing but memories, a trail of blood and a few scattered limbs.

But rerolls, coaches and cheerleaders are like cockroaches. Once you have them, then they are yours for life and I don't like that. I want the same type of thing that happens to players and fan factor to happen to rerolls. Ideally I want some kind of natural wastage in such a way that all teams can suffer a loss but nothing incredibly dramatic. Also, the last thing I want is for a poor team to be punished by losing rerolls to make them even worse.

I had been thinking about all teams starting out with a couple of rerolls (which they can never lose, maybe) and then have some kind of fan factor like table which would include mods i.e. win a tourney and get a reroll; not retain a trophy and lose a reroll. Stuff like that but I would be grateful if anybody has any suggestions or they have ever seen/used any houserules which fit in with what I am looking for.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:07 pm

You can remove coaches and cheerleaders.
Not 100% on rerolls, but every league I've played in allowed you to drop them.

MattDakka · Post by **MattDakka** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:18 pm

Yes, you can get rid of team re-rolls, according to the rules.
CRP, Page 29, POST MATCH SEQUENCE, 2. Update Team Roster, step 5 says:
"Each coach must decide if they wish to spend any gold in the team treasury to buy new players and coaching staff, and/or let go (i.e fire) any team re-rolls, players, or coaching staff who are no longer wanted.[...]"

mattski · Post by **mattski** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:24 pm

Thanks for the replies but I know that you can lose them anytime that you want. What I am looking for is a mechanic in which they will eventually fade by themselves. The hit that you give to an opposing team in team value is always worth taking because 1) they are a reroll and 2) you probably paid 2x the value for it.

This is why this question/request is in the house rules forum. I am trying to come up with a mechanic like the old fan factor roll to simulate waxing and waning team rolls rather than, 'I have x amount of money, I will buy a reroll and have it forever'. Perpetual leagues will have a shifting cast of players but eventually teams will have 6+ rerolls because they got on a streak of not losing players.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:27 pm

Ah, that wasn't what you said ("have them for life").
Sorry to have wasted your time.

MattDakka · Post by **MattDakka** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:40 pm

Sorry for misunderstanding you, so, you are looking for a sort of "re-roll ageing" rule, right?
What about rolling a d6 after the match, adding 1 if you won, 0 for a draw, -1 for a loss?
If the total is equal to or higher than the current number of re-rerolls then the team keeps them.
if the total is lower than the current number of re-rolls the team loses 1 re-roll permanently.

dode74 · Post by **dode74** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:46 pm

CRP suggests that tournament winners get a RR for free but which counts towards TV while they hold the trophy. You could easily house-rule that one so that they cost nothing at all.

A form of handicapping might be to award extra free RRs to low FF (i.e. losing) teams after a certain number of games. Most teams hover about the 9-13 mark, so teams with FF<5 might get 2 extra RR, FF<8 get 1.
Perhaps easier is to have FF count as 20TV per point, since FF is a reasonable indication of successful teams. This would increase the inducement gap between teams, allowing extras such as RRs to be bought. The effect would be to bloat TV, though, so you may want to either shift SE a little or adjust the concept and have a table cost for FF, so that FF 0-5 is free, FF 5-10 is 10TV each, FF 11+ is 20TV each - a bit more complex, but also easy to tweak.

mattski · Post by **mattski** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:53 pm

That's an interesting idea dode, will have to think about that one. Thanks to all, should have made it clearer that I was looking for permanent reroll gain and loss. The problem is a mechanic that isn't too extreme. I never liked ageing as a mechanic but it is the kind of thing that I want to happen to rerolls. They kind of degenerate over time but I like the idea of somehow tying them in to the inducement mechanic as well.

Mango · Post by **Mango** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:50 am

I would do something like this:

Off Season Blues
In the off season teams struggle to maintain high levels of discipline and often forget plays or just generally lose their team focus

At the end of the season every team loses 1 reroll permanently down to a minimum of 3 (or maybe 2 if you want to be tough) rerolls

That helps shave the rerolls down equally between all teams (no dice roll) without punishing low RR (generally newer) teams.

dzigany · Post by **dzigany** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:24 am

What about if after each season, you have to rebuy all re-rolls above 4? But for the original price.

So, for example, a Skaven team with 6RR would have to pay 120.000 to remain at 6RR or go down to 4...

This seem to benefit the bashy teams though as they don't lose that many players and generally start hoarding piles of money... Back to the drawing board...

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:20 am

Or maybe "Pre Season Training" where, between seasons, each Team first rolls against each of their rerolls to see how many they can keep (4+ after modifiers). Modifiers for TV could apply... So

TV <1000... +2 modifier
1000-1090... +1
1100-1190... 0
1200-1290... -1
1300+... -2.

(Unmodified roll of 1 always fails, unmodified roll of 6 always succeeds.)

Then, once all rolls are made, team rerolls may be purchased at rostered cost.

Once the season is underway, rerolls cost double rostered cost as normal.

dode74 · Post by **dode74** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:55 am

Nice idea, Shteve0, although I would modify by FF rather than TV, since FF is a better indication of how successful a team has been. That would make it a form of handicapping, giving the weaker coaches a bonus for a season. The only issue with that is that a team which has been a runaway success is then given the incentive to lose a few games in order to lose FF, but I think that if a team is running away with things that much then the problem is more than RRs

Juriel · Post by **Juriel** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:12 am

Agreed with Dode. FF serves as an alright indicator of team ability in the long run.

Dwarven Allstar · Post by **Dwarven Allstar** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:41 am

You could always send the re rolls to me as I am sure I play with weighted dice. I always end up with a turn over, all joking aside there should be some dynamic for removing apothecaries and cheerleaders.

E.g On a roll of 1 the apothecary takes some of his own medicine and turns into a newt

mattski · Post by **mattski** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:48 pm

How about something like this:

At the end of the season every coach rolls a d6 for both their coaches and cheerleaders (i.e. a roll for each one). If the number rolled is less than or equal to the amount that you have then you lose one permanently.

Each coach will also roll 2d6 for their rerolls. If both dice are equal to or lower than the number of rerolls that the team has it loses one reroll permanently i.e. you have 3 rerolls and roll 2 & 2; you lose a reroll but if you had rolled a 1 & 4 then you keep all your rerolls.

Make sense? The idea being that given long enough you would eventually always run out of everything (they retire or the team gets lazy or whatever) but it is much more punitive to those with a lot. The reason for less than or equal is to make sure that given enough time a team would lose everything. Whilst I like a lot of the suggestions here I just can't see how to balance them theoretically without needing multiple seasons. As ever, all comments, suggestions etc are more than welcome.

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