Evolved Elf teams

[Smurf]

Alternatively you could develop a play against elves and stop moaning. IMO the problem is taking 'hive mind' optimal skills.

[spubbbba]

Alternatively you could develop a play against elves and stop moaning. IMO the problem is taking 'hive mind' optimal skills.

This is a good point, most teams tend to build themselves to take on bashers rather than elves so many of the anti-elf skills are only useful against them.

Skills like tackle, grab, diving, tackle, tentacles, disturbing presence and even the likes of shadowing and passblock have varying degrees of usefulness versus elves. The trouble is they are often useless against other teams whilst skills like guard, MB, block and Piling On are good against everyone.

Online open league environments heavily favour bash teams since so many coaches care more about building teams than winning lots. But even leagues will usually have more bash as not only are there more bash than agile teams but it is hard work coaching elves sometimes. So not only are teams less able to deal with elves but the coaches facing off against them will usually have less experience playing them.

[Smurf]

I just played an amusing game of WE at 2.19mil vs a newish gobbo team of 1.3 mil.

I was taken apart, it was a draw but 8 elves dead and injured (one line dead), 3ko, 2 chucked off pitch.

Lessen learn, treat gobbos differently to other teams.

[theghr]

I think there is a rule regarding team construction that no team may have both ST4 and AG4 players (big guys not included). Vamps are the only exception, but they suck, so they don't count.

Some of the best teams are bashers with an AG4 ballcarrier, now they have to be lucky to get there... And I think it's essential that it stays that way.

Edit: I think Hito has a much better idea with the new starplayer.

So you think AG4 for the Norse runners and no starting skills for anyone will make them better at the start than Elves?

[mattgslater]

I think so, but I like it the way it is. If you make a Norse team, and the first thing that happens is a Runner or Lino gets +AG, you've had a huge stroke of luck. Your starting team with one or two games under its belt and TV no more than about 1100k is now super-effective!

Having the only elf team in a bunch of bash teams is awesome: there won't be enough Tackle! In a league with a good mix, you'll see opponents getting the anti-elf skills earlier.

@ Spubbbba: Grab is a bash-vs-bash or (even better) bash-vs-middling skill, with a compensatory ability that makes it sometimes good against agility teams. Agile opponents can play deep defense better than bashy ones. It's really good for advancing or cracking a cage, forcing suboptimal defenses, and otherwise winning scrums, especially in the wide zones. But otherwise, yeah.

Solution proposals:

1) Go back to +1 to both rolls for MB and DP, like in 3.0. You may have to nerf PO, but a simple "natural result only" for the re-roll would solve that problem.

2) Improve opportunity fouling. Maybe bring back Argue the Call and allow the fouler to assist himself?

3) Reduce Icepelt's cost, maybe give Setekh Tackle @ 250k?

[Smurf]

2 teams are AV7 and the other 2 are AV8.

Not exactly tough.

Block/wrestle and dodge limits the bash to a 1:3 on a 2d and add fend means no pile on or frenzy.

When their numbers dwindle then they have problems.

[mattgslater]

Tackle makes that 5/9, Smurf.

I mean, that's the thing. There's no way you can have enough Fend that the POMBers aren't going to be smacking their chosen targets around at least some of the time. Sometimes you'll win that matchup and the other guy will look silly; sometimes you can't, or Fend won't save you 'cause he won't have to Pile On. You can Blodge everyone up, and that helps. You can win the positioning battle by getting enough Blodge/SS that you seldom give up the edge and always stay on the ball. But you will take your damage no matter what.

Fortunately, you're good at exploiting Wizards....

Elves are always competitive. Certain teams have a hard time with them, certain coaches have a hard time with them. I find that it's easier for me to face opponents that I can just corral and force a block-fest I'll almost always win. When I play a serious mismatch game I have a hard time, whether it's my bash vs. speed or my speed vs. bash. Maybe that's why my best record is with Humans... everybody wants to play them with their bash teams, but massive scrums are what I live and breathe, and I will get control. Get me in space, and my IQ drops about 20 points. When I play elves, who can't necessarily smack the heavy teams around, I find I'm better against speed teams, or at least teams that don't rely on ST4 Blockers with Block and Guard (not counting Ogres or Lizards). I do my best work with speed in situations where I can pin the opponent down, hit them in the joints, and generally not get outmaneuvered. But I'm too aggressive against the heavy types: I've played lots of coaches with proper patience to wait for a mistake and capitalize on it rather than forcing one, and I envy that capacity. I only know how to swarm you and kick you in the teeth. I kick pretty hard, but if it doesn't work it's maybe gonna be a long day for me.

[Smurf]

The elves can stall for about a turn.

Also Dauntless really upsets the ST guys.

IMO the aim is pose, poise and pounce.