Would the old Stand Firm free dodge be too powerful?

Got some ideas for rules? Maybe a skill change or something completely different!!! Tell us here.

Moderator: TFF Mods

Post Reply
User avatar
spubbbba
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2267
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:42 pm
Location: York

Would the old Stand Firm free dodge be too powerful?

Post by spubbbba »

I was thinking that it was a bit of a shame that Stand Firm is a shadow of it’s former self. I wondered if you could give it the Foul Appearance treatment and split it into 2 skills.

Call it something like “Escape” and use the rules of the lrb4 version where it was a free dodge attempt. If it went back to the 3rd edition version where you automatically moved 1 square and could keep moving if you passed then that would be too good really.

So, if that was available would anyone take it? I could see it being useful for AG3 slightly squishy players like norse, humans, skaven and zons.

Reason: ''
My past and current modelling projects showcased on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.
koadah
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:26 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Would the old Stand Firm free dodge be too powerful?

Post by koadah »

Isn't break tackle bad enough? ;)

Reason: ''
Glowworm

Re: Would the old Stand Firm free dodge be too powerful?

Post by Glowworm »

Stand firms pretty good as is.....especially on Frenzy pieces that cannot normal get Side step.

Free dodge attempt? most players with easy access to SF are not the type that should be good at dodging.....

I think its about right as is.

Reason: ''
User avatar
spubbbba
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2267
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:42 pm
Location: York

Re: Would the old Stand Firm free dodge be too powerful?

Post by spubbbba »

glowworm wrote:Stand firms pretty good as is.....especially on Frenzy pieces that cannot normal get Side step.

Free dodge attempt? most players with easy access to SF are not the type that should be good at dodging.....

I think its about right as is.
But if the free dodge was a skill in it’s own right would that be a worthwhile pick?

Reason: ''
My past and current modelling projects showcased on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.
Glowworm

Re: Would the old Stand Firm free dodge be too powerful?

Post by Glowworm »

spubbbba wrote:
glowworm wrote:Stand firms pretty good as is.....especially on Frenzy pieces that cannot normal get Side step.

Free dodge attempt? most players with easy access to SF are not the type that should be good at dodging.....

I think its about right as is.
But if the free dodge was a skill in it’s own right would that be a worthwhile pick?
It would probably become a 1st pick, no turnover if you fail (IIRc) so an obvious first action especially with a guard player.

Reason: ''
Hitonagashi
Star Player
Star Player
Posts: 664
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:11 pm

Re: Would the old Stand Firm free dodge be too powerful?

Post by Hitonagashi »

I don't think people would take it.

It would be great for big guys as a late skill(I can see it going guard/sf/bt/escape).

The thing is, if you have G access, there are better skills for ST based players (namely, killing skills), and better skills on doubles for AG based (guard).

Reason: ''
User avatar
garion
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
Posts: 1687
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:59 pm

Re: Would the old Stand Firm free dodge be too powerful?

Post by garion »

Simple solution - make LRB4 Stand Firm, but give it the Jump Up treatment... a St roll +2 to work.

Then make it a trait and bring back Traits. The removal of traits is the worst change since lrb4 imo.

Reason: ''
User avatar
mattgslater
King of Comedy
Posts: 7758
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:18 pm
Location: Far to the west, across the great desert, in the fabled Land of Comedy

Re: Would the old Stand Firm free dodge be too powerful?

Post by mattgslater »

I'm opposite you there, Garion. I hated Traits.

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
bruce888
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:47 pm

Re: Would the old Stand Firm free dodge be too powerful?

Post by bruce888 »

i agree, the removal of traits was a great thing. some players became restricted with their access to a trait, and teams grew with a similar pattern. Has anyone tried a system of buying skills with points rather than the current system, i.e. your Human Blitzer starts as normal, then upgrades to-6-15 SPP's. The player still rolls to see what he has access to G, S or a Double and then selects from the seected choice. Block-6 Spp's, Wrestle-3 SPP's, Tackle-3 Spp' Mighty Blow-4 SPP's, Juggernaut-3 SPPS, Stand Firm-3 SPP's etc, etc. by making Wrestle cheaper than Block it could make coaches think more as they spend their SPP's at variant levels. We have tried this in our league but over a very short season with only 4 teams, it did work, but we didn't have a solid cost of skillsper say, the costs were rather thrown together in a thats a Great Skill, 5 SPP's. Thats a Good Skill, 4 SPP's, and that's a Mediocre Skill, 3 SPP's, any thoughts please.

Reason: ''
Hitonagashi
Star Player
Star Player
Posts: 664
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:11 pm

Re: Would the old Stand Firm free dodge be too powerful?

Post by Hitonagashi »

Hehehe, in the Plasmoid Mega Thread, I almost proposed restoring LRB 4 SF as a 'solution' to rebalance Bash and Ball.

It would certainly be very powerful, but I don't think it would be too powerful. You are comparing it against MB and Guard, and, what bash teams would gain from a single risk free dodge, they'd lose from, well, losing MB/G.

Reason: ''
macabeo
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:04 am

Re: Would the old Stand Firm free dodge be too powerful?

Post by macabeo »

Hitonagashi wrote:Hehehe, in the Plasmoid Mega Thread, I almost proposed restoring LRB 4 SF as a 'solution' to rebalance Bash and Ball.

It would certainly be very powerful, but I don't think it would be too powerful. You are comparing it against MB and Guard, and, what bash teams would gain from a single risk free dodge, they'd lose from, well, losing MB/G.
This x10000. This is what prompted me to open this thread about Multiple Block's nerf. Sure, Multiple Block on a blitz may sound scary, but is it really better than Guard and MB? Nerf the killstack, open more options for S access players.

Regarding SF, I'd go with Garion's suggestion, but toning it down a bit so ST3 players don't succeed on a 2+ (strength must mean something, right?). Anyway I think SF is a rather underrated skill, even more so considering that Side Step is such a popular one. I was very surprised when I recently read a thread on Fumbbl about 3 longbeards that rolled doubles at the same time and a considerable amount of people were suggesting Side Step for the three of them, when SF is a normal roll and there are a lot of other useful options.

Reason: ''
Hitonagashi
Star Player
Star Player
Posts: 664
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:11 pm

Re: Would the old Stand Firm free dodge be too powerful?

Post by Hitonagashi »

Sidestep is mostly better than Stand Firm (I was one of those saying to put 3x SS on the dwarves).

The difference comes between them on a blitz. Let's say that you are considering blitzing the SF or SS player. With SF, you know that he will not move, with Sidestep, he can move to where he is most damaging. The obvious example of this is elves anchoring the sides of cages with SS/DT blodgers - Block one, and don't pow, and they are stepping inside your cage and SS/DTing your ball carrier.

There are occasions where SF is better of course, but fundamentally, it's the difference between your choice of 8 squares, and your choice of one. There's almost always a place you can put a sidestepper where he isn't directly exposed to blocks, but if someone blitzes him to try and move him out of the way, he can sidestep into somewhere very annoying.

Regardless, getting OT!

I agree with Mac about nerfing the ST roll slightly. This is because there are a lot of players with AG 2/1 (all of which can *really* use Jump Up), but not many players with ST 2/1, and those players will not be taking Stand Firm :lol:. You could just make it a ST +1 roll, as the real problem would be ST 3 players doing it.

Reason: ''
User avatar
the.tok
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:09 pm
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Re: Would the old Stand Firm free dodge be too powerful?

Post by the.tok »

Old stand firm was not that powerful.

The thing that made me sad when traits were removed is the flesh golems is a lot worse now. At least give this back to him, he deserves it :D

Reason: ''
Post Reply