Talk Fantasy Football

Hi all,
I think a lot of us consider the Daemons of Khorne to be slightly below a tier 1 team. As intended - no doubt - but if you wanted to upgrade the DoK roster to tier 1, how would you do it?
(I'm thinking a tweak here, not a complete overhaul).

Cheers
Martin

With a chemise?

Regen on the Heralds was an option we considered, as was making them ST4. Depends on how much of a buff, really.

Short-term or long-term buff?

For long-term, I'd suggest giving the team Mutation access. It wouldn't be a short-term buff at all, but over the long run, they'd be a bit better. Plus, daemons having mutations just makes sense from a fluff perspective.

For short-term, I'd do what Dode suggests and give the Heralds an immediate buff -- either 4ST, regeneration, or something that would have an instant effect on them in tournaments (Block, MB, or something similar to make them a bit better). They (as far as tier 1 is concerned -- and imho) are the players that need help. The BLs are agile ball handlers, the PFs are linemen (meat), and the BT is big and dangerous as he is (and expensive. But worth the cost). Heralds are (again, imho) the player type causing the team to be just below tier 1. Well, that and the fact that most people can't manage the frenzy, but nothing you do is going to help that.

I haven't even got approval to play them in my league yet and you're on the buff train already? There's not much data out there right now, they seem a bit under-powered, but how much is that down to player skill and poor upgrade choices.

Hard to buff a team that doesn't exist.

Aside from the obvious challenge of frenzy, the problem with the team is probably cost. A lot of TV is tied up in skills you don't really want more of, but don't have a choice in taking. The cultists are paying 10k for frenzy, which is great in small quantities, but essentially a negatrait in mass. The team sorely needs re-rolls and they cost 70k. A move to 60k would improve the starting roster options as well. The Herald, out of the box is also 30k more expensive than a pit fighter, but is essentially the same player with 2 extra skills (horns and juggernaut) that you can only use once per turn for the team that you already have on 4 demons. Obviously you take Heralds for their strength skill access, but initially that's a rough value given the rest of the roster.

Regen on the Heralds would make them a better value and improve the teams development, but I'm not sure it would make a huge difference on whether they won an individual game. They'd be more likely to be available in the 2nd half, but wouldn't actually play better when they were on the pitch (aside from them probably accumulating more skills over time).

Giving the cultists strength access would simplify the ability to get the guard that the team needs, but I don't like the idea of the entire team having strength access.

Having 0-6 demons (possibly at the expense of the heralds) would keep the flavor of frenzy on the team, but make it much more manageable. I'm not a huge fan of this solution, because then it would be too similar to the Norse roster being able to field 6 non-frenzy and 5 frenzy players.

I realize that giving them access to mutations, even limited access, would improve the team and add some options, but I don't think that's really where the solution lies or what the team needs. I don't think we need more claw players.

Mostly I think they need a little more discount on the starting skills they have or cheaper re-rolls. Making the Heralds 80k and rerolls 60k would go a long way for the team.

I wouldn't buff them at all.

In 3 online leagues with DOK I reached the final twice (2 losses both at overtime against Spartako with orcs) and lost at the semi-final the first year.
(And in 3 leagues and the finals I never took the wizard because, you know, it's KHorne)
In 2 tourneys with them I tied the first place once.
All they need to be competitive is a coach that is as crazy as them.

Probably they are a bit below tier 1, ok.
That's where I love them to be.
Those teams are the most intriguing and challenging.
I think that any new team should aim at tier 1.5 (that's the reason I dislike brets).

On the heralds. They are (together with the BT) the keystones of my play. I NEVER play with less then 2.

to make them tear 1, i would give demons your bretonnian blitzers

i think they are as good as they should be, frenzy machines
tier 1 teams are system failures not the final objective for every team.

I have nothing against tier 1 teams.
But if everything was tier one the game would be, for my taste, a lot less attractive and fun.
I like having tiers.

And I think Bretonnian blitzers could make any team but a mono-snotling a tier 1.
Maybe we should buff all the other teams.

I think that any new team should aim at tier 1.5

This. It's easier to buff a team than to have to nerf one and break the metagame.

Change it to having 0-16 Beastmen, 0-4 Chaos Warriors and a Minotaur.
Done.

Why is it whenever someone poses a genuine question the TFF Moderators feel the need to Troll it? Seriously, what do you guys actually do for this forum other than get on people's nerves?