My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Got some ideas for rules? Maybe a skill change or something completely different!!! Tell us here.

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WDYT?

Looks great: light touch, fixes CRP without going crazy.
3
16%
Needs more _____(post)
0
No votes
Too much: get rid of _____(post)
2
11%
I see a problem with _____(post)
1
5%
Other (post)
1
5%
Pie
12
63%
 
Total votes: 19

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mattgslater
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My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by mattgslater »

This is for an open perpetual league among friends with occasional round-robin "seasons" and a monthly ladder/Swiss-ish-style matchup. (Teams that put their hat in the ring are matched up based on win streak, TV, and last month's outcome for that coach.) Been sitting on this for a long time, putting it up here now because one of my friends wants to see how I'd fix CRP, and this was my best effort like a year ago. Tell me what you think.

1: Pre-Match Sequence

1a: Petty Cash:
Gold spent on Petty Cash adds double value in Petty Cash, up to 200k inducements for 100,000 gold. After that, it's 1:1.

1b: Inducements
* 1b1: Free Beer! (100k+). Money can't buy you love, but it can buy you beer, so whatever. For 100k plus 50k per point of FAME you have, add +1 to your FAME for the match.
* 1b2: Humanoid Interest Story (150k). Your team hires a reporter to write a puff-piece on one of your players. Nominate a player and roll 1d6.
1: the story never sees the light of day.
2-3: the fans come to watch the player. He automatically takes home your team's MVP award.
4-6: the player is inspired by the story to play harder. He receives a bonus MVP award, applied immediately. If this would increase his Star Player Rank, make a new Improvement roll and select an improvement immediately.

2) Actions

2a: Fouls
* 2a1: A player may "assist" his own foul, adding +1 to the AV roll if he is not in an enemy TZ.
* 2a2: Foul assists are optional, and are calculated after the AV and injury dice are rolled, with the attacker applying his assists first (this is only of benefit to Sneaky Git players, though in theory it's always applicable).

3) Rosters

3a: Apothecary
The Apothecary has 3 uses. Pick one, once per match.
* 3a1 Smelling Salts: Play this on any knocked out player at any time. If the player was just injured, he is stunned instead. If he is in the Knocked Out area, move him to Reserves.
* 3a2 Quick Fix: Play this on any player who has just been Badly Hurt. Move the player to Reserves.
* 3a3 Emergency Surgery: Play this on any player who has just been Seriously Injured or Killed. Roll 1d6:
1: the player suffers the injury normally
2-3: the player misses the next match but suffers no other consequences
4-6: the player moves straight to Reserves.

3b: Player Positions
* 3b1: Ogre. The Human and Ogre team Ogres, as well as the Chaos Pact Chaos Ogre, cost 130k, not 140k.

3c: Skills
* 3c1: Claw. A player with Claw automatically breaks armor on a natural AV roll of 8 or higher on an AV roll caused by a block, regardless of the opponent's AV score. Claws take a little leverage to get through armor, so the skill only works if the Claw player is standing when the roll is made. (Effectively, Claw doesn't stack with MB/PO, though there is still combo power via the injury roll.) Unlike Piling On, the player need not remain in the defender's Tackle Zone.
* 3c2: Loner. Induced players and rookies or "experienced" or "veteran" players who have Loner use the rules as described in CRP. Once a player reaches "Emerging Star" at 31 SPP, only a 3+ is needed to use a team re-roll. When a player hits "Legend" at 176 SPP, only a 2+ is needed.

4: Team Development

4a: MVP Awards.
Randomly select two different players on your team to be eligible for the MVP. If one of those players earned SPP in the match, he receives the MVP award: if both or neither did, you may pick one of the two to receive it. (Note: Mercenaries and Star Players do not earn SPP, but Journeymen do.)

4b: Star Player Ranks.
* 4b1: Star Player Rank is used as the basis for player value add, rather than treating each improvement à la carte.
Rookie +0
Experienced +20k
Veteran +40k
Emerging Star +70k
Star +100k
Super Star +130k
Legend +150k
* 4b2: Characteristic increases add an additional +10k (+MA/AV), +20k (+AG) or +30k (+ST).
* 4b3: Add +10k if the player has any doubles skills or any Mutations (even if Mutations are normal skills for the player): just +10k no matter how many doubles skills and/or Mutations the player has.

4c: Winnings and Expenses.
* 4c1: Winnings. Add twice the total Gate to Winnings, rounded down to the nearest 10,000 gold (+1 to the roll per 5,000 total fans).
* 4c2: Spiraling Expenses: Spiraling Expenses starts at just 1.1M with 100k increments, up to 100k. Calculating your SE Threshold is easy: subtract 1 million gold from your TV, divide by 10, and round down.

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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mattgslater
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Re: My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by mattgslater »

Hmmm… I see it was too complex. Simplified.

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by voyagers_uk »

Not so much difficult Matt, I just need an hour to dig into it

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mattgslater
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Re: My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by mattgslater »

Yay, got a vote… only took 3 weeks.

Particularly, does 2a2 (foul assists are optional) make Sneaky Git worth taking?

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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mattgslater
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Re: My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by mattgslater »

K, gonna try to pare it down to the tl;dr version, thinking that might help.

1: The first 100k of Petty Cash is matched by the league.
2: Two new inducements: +1 FAME (costs 100k+), and a dedicated (or free!) MVP for 150k.
3: You can assist your own foul, and foul assists are optional and after-the-fact (a big buff to Sneaky Git).
4: Better Apothecary, but not as good as the old days.
5: Ogres are 130k, not 140k.
6: Claw only works when standing, doesn't stack with MB (MB can still be used on injury).
7: Loner loses its impact as the player gains experience within the team's system (not a help for Mercs and Stars, but a big deal for bigs).
8: Roll 2 MVPs, pick one. If possible, you have to pick one that got SPP in the match.
9: +10k TV at 3rd, 4th, and 5th skills (each rank with "star" in the name). Any number of doubles or mutations (even on normals) always adds 10k (no matter how many you have), instead of each doubles costing 10k more.
10: Gate adds to Winnings. Spiraling Expenses threshold is really looooowwww, so you'll add a lot and subtract a lot every game.

Does that make it easier to digest?

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Re: My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by sann0638 »

Happy with crp, personally!

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mattgslater
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Re: My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by mattgslater »

What I'm trying to fix:
ClawPOMB wants a nerf. De-stacking Claw sounds like the easy way.
TV doesn't account for skill-stacking
New teams need a buff in money and SPP to get up to speed vs old teams.
Sneaky Git sucks, and it should be mediocre.
Fouling was just slightly over-nerfed.
Apoth needs a buff.
Ogres cost too much.
Big guys at high rank without doubles just get cut.
Nobody spends petty cash.
Teams actually lose money for playing against marquee opponents.

Contemplating Decay on Mummies...

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Re: My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by celticgriffon »

Hey,

Like most Blood Bowl fans I appreciate well thought out and fun house rules.

I really like your ideas for bonus fame and for bonus MVP. That is definitely something that could help long term team development. I might even incorporate these ideas into my league.

When reviewing your apothecary tweaks you have basically bumped Miss Next Game to be 16.7% more likely). Not sure why there is a need to do this to be honest?

I think that no rule-set is perfect of course. But I must ask - do you have rampant cl/po/mb in your league or is it just a fear? Do you have a fetish for Ogres? Do you want to encourage more fouls because they are a fun part of the game?

The CRP is a solid rule-set. I know people call it CRAP. But it isn't. It is still an evolution over 25+ years. Leagues were super fun even back in 1994 with 3rd edtion. And they still are today.

If you feel new teams need money buffs then why not allow them start at 1.2 M instead of drastically changing the spiralling expense and winnings formula?

Cheers,
Michael

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If you could be anyone would you be yourself? ~ yup it's mine!

Michael aka Da Big Green 'Un (commissioner Regina Flatland BB League - RFBBL)
http://www.reginaflatland.bloodbowlleague.com
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mattgslater
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Re: My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by mattgslater »

Mostly I'm looking to help shepherd a few stuck-in-their-ways coaches into CRP by "fixing" all the "problems" they've heard about without actually breaking CRP. That and the TV formula which is my pet peeve on FUMBBL.

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Re: My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by Fassbinder75 »

I think your experience level +TV boost is treating the symptoms and not the disease. AFAIK there's only one skill combination where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts - which is CPOMB. Is that the objective of this particular exercise? In my experience later skills tend to have considerably less utility than the first one or two, not more as your costs bear out.

The 'disease' is that there are two fantastic skills (Block, Dodge), maybe ten strong ones followed by a bunch of situational chaff - yet they all weigh the same on a roster.

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Re: My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by fidius »

Fassbinder75 wrote:The 'disease' is that there are two fantastic skills (Block, Dodge), maybe ten strong ones followed by a bunch of situational chaff - yet they all weigh the same on a roster.
I absolutely agree with this, except I'd add Guard to the fantastic list. Then of course the kill-stack as you mentioned. My own answer, which I'm still working on, is to bring all skills into line with one another, rather than fiddle with TV values. What I'm finding is that it's probably not possible without breaking the team-building part of the game. You can split Dodge (probably a good idea), and you can split Block (probably a bad idea because it sets player development back, when blocking is the #1 most important action in the game), but dumbing-down Guard is the trick. I've toyed with putting limits on the number of Guard assists per block (1 or 2), or introducing an anti-Guard skill (Trash Talker cancels Guard), but no real decisions yet.

Anyway didn't mean to derail. Matt, I like many of your houserules, particularly the ones that align mechanics with reality (or fluff). My reactions:
1a) Petty Cash boost: not bad but I prefer the Banking rule. 80k Wizards for overdogs? No thanks!
1b) Beer FAME: nice idea. HIS: not a big fan -- agreed that this would increase coach interest but feels too rigged.
2) There are better ways to improve fouling -- my personal preference is for Git to permit a reroll of any roll that results in ejection. Your "optional" suggestion improves Git but not by enough to make people take it. (Personally I think it's worth taking for some teams, even on doubles.)
3) I like the Smelling Salts. Other than that the rules are too complicated for too-small benefit (drops Apo'd perm chances from 11% to 5.5%, right?).
4) MVP: 1/2, sure... Again, too rigged. I prefer the various joint-nominated d6 MVP methods out there, but ultimately would stick with d16 I think. Player Ranks: again, too much paperwork for too little benefit. Also, see above. +10k for M skills is an interesting thought.
5) I like 2x Gate. No idea where you're going with the SE table, though I suspect it works in conjunction with the other money-related fixes, which would take too many brain-cycles to work through right now.

Fidius

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mattgslater
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Re: My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by mattgslater »

@ Fassbinder75: The problem is that quality stacking in general carries a non-arithmetic value on the pitch. It's not only ClawPOMB, there's TacklePOMB, Blodgestep/Guard, etc. I don't have a problem with the stacks themselves, it's just that they add more to the team on the pitch than on the roster.

@ Fidius:
1) Yeah, that's ill-considered. My time in Ranked has made me a fan of not having a bank, but I want more Petty Cash fun. Hmmm… what if that money were usable only for cards? Anybody ever work with Bank as a percentage? Say 10% of your healthy TV?

2) Sneaky Git shouldn't be a good skill. But if it sucks a little less, that's nice. This is the +1 bonus, sorta: you can assist yourself if not pulled off. I appreciate the re-roll suggestion, but that would make it a 2+ on injury and better than a 3+ on AV, too good.

3) The grief with the new Apo is that it's only 80% as player-savey as it used to be.
Old Apoth: 83% to save a good player on a bad injury.
New Apoth: Pick one:
* Save KO
* Save BH to reserves (1st half)
* 67% to save a good player on a bad injury to reserves. 1/4 of those he goes MNG. So yeah, the difference is 1/18 (5.5% if you like) of all Cas rolls. You say 5.5%, I say it "feels" like it comes up a lot, and that's what really matters.

4) We've been running on d16, RR once if you don't like the first result. The "you gotta take it on a player if they got points," I think I should include it in an options packet.

5) The SE table and the 2x Gate are intended to semi-neutralize each other. This discussion comes around to Bank. What we used to talk about but never implemented might be better here, splitting TV into Effective TV and Full TV (ETV and FTV), with ETV being as-is and used for inducements and FTV including MNG Treasury (or half Treasury) for Spiraling Expenses.

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Re: My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by fidius »

I wasn't around the game pre-CRP so I have no basis for comparison. But I remember being surprised at how the Apo operated... and thinking it was hilarious and totally appropriate. Whoops! Tried to fix your torn ACL and broke your clavicle by mistake! Sorry! That'll be 50k gp please! In other words I like it how it is.

Also I don't understand your Git reply, wih the 2+ and 3+. You could be right, a straight RR might be too good. Keep in mind though that I'd replace its current functionality not add to it. A side effect is that it would slightly buff fouling, because you'd be rerolling fails if they were doubles, so 1/1, 2/2, 3/3 on both Armour and Injury. I would therefore remove the +1 on Armour Roll as well.

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Re: My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by mattgslater »

It would be massively better than Dirty Player: doubles are only one in six, so it's like a 2+ save on one roll. If that roll is AV, there's another 2+ save, so it's like two 2+ rolls, which is similar to a 3+ (a little better, actually). Sneaky Git is hard to calculate precisely (target really matters) but for most uses it comes out to somewhere between 5+ and 6+ save on ejections, give or take. Trust me, with the re-roll you'd see elves fouling every turn with near impunity. My version is basically double-strength for most fouls (saves your dude on double-3 or double-4 at the expense of an injury roll), and that's a big enough deal to make it viable for Stunties and even DP doubles.

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Re: My House Rules SIMPLIFIED VERSION : Like?

Post by Fassbinder75 »

mattgslater wrote:@ Fassbinder75: The problem is that quality stacking in general carries a non-arithmetic value on the pitch. It's not only ClawPOMB, there's TacklePOMB, Blodgestep/Guard, etc. I don't have a problem with the stacks themselves, it's just that they add more to the team on the pitch than on the roster.
This house rule will make it worse for anyone who isn't trying to min-max their roster because they're going to be paying extra for not trying to skill stack.

@Fidius: I think Block/Dodge are core to the game as they are, splitting them would be messy. There are too many non-decisions at level up time because those skills along with Guard and Side Step are just way better than most of the options. Rather than nerfing the good skills, I'd buff the crappy ones. Not all of them, but at least enough of them to make selection decisions a bit more interesting. But that's a whole other thread.

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