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 Post subject: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:29 am 
Emerging Star
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Deep Ones Team
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Hey guys, in wake of the black army deep ones fish man blood bowl team being released in resin by the impact kickstarter, me and a friend have begun working on a roster for them. My friend has been using a points guide written by Gervis Johnson. This is a work in progress and we are looking for any suggestions.


QTY. POSITION MV ST AG. AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
0-16. Fish man. 5. 3. 2. 8. Two heads. G. 40,000.

QTY. POSITION MV ST AG AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
O-4. Anemone diver. 6. 3. 3. 8. Hypnotic gaze, regeneration AG. 90,000

QTY. POSITION MV ST. AG AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
0-4 Octopus man 4. 3. 2. 8. Prehensile tail, tentacle, sure hands. SG. 80,000

QTY. POSITION MV ST. AG AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
0-2 shark man 5. 4. 2. 9. Frenzy, claw. SG. 120,000

QTY. POSITION MV AG ST AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
0-1. Crab man. 4. 5. 1. 9. Loner, wild animal, claw, thick skull, sidestep. S. 140,000

Rerolls 60,000 gp


As you can tell we decided to go with physical skills.

For the fish men, my friend thought we should give them two heads because they would be slippery. Originally we gave them AG 3 but I thought they would be too good at scoring. So my friend thought we should give them ag 2. I think it makes them kinda poor now but my friend says a fish out of water shouldn't be too agile. I'm still undecided on them.


For the anemone diver we decided to go with the hypnotic gaze because of it stinging cells. I envision him as spectral and that's why I thought regeneration goes well with him. I feel like he is an unnatural being. Pirates of the Caribbean comes to mind. My friend thought that regeneration was a good fit because of the regeneration ability of sea anemones.

The octopus man was originally strength 4 and limited to 2 max but we felt it was too powerful having 4 ST 4 skillful players including the shark men. The anti AG abilities we felt would be too powerful for rookie elf teams. After lowering the strength we felt we should increase their max to 4.

The shark men have claw because of their jaw and frenzy because of their frenzied nature. Originally we played with skills like juggernaut, and shadowing because of the way they stalk and hunt in the wild but went against it because otherwise all predators in the game should have it and they are fish out of water after all.

The crab man is my favorite position on the team. There is no model for him in the impact team so we're looking for a good model. I haven't found one yet but let us know if you have any suggestions. I think it's a really fluffy and powerful piece on the field. The claw and thickskull are perfect traits for the crab and we felt like sidestep goes well with the way crabs actually move although I feel like it makes him much more powerful. We also played with the idea of really stupid or bone head instead. It doesn't make much difference to me. Perhaps really stupid would be best on him since he has limited vision due to not having a neck and may not be aware or players around him. We also considered grab but thought it was too much and it can always be chosen as a skill.

We imagine the team, would develop to be guard heavy to protect the octopus men and take advantage of the crab mans sidestep. I also feel like the powerful crab man would be more acceptable with just 2 strength 4 guys on the team rather than 4 originally.

We've play tested just one time so far and ended up dropping ST 4 octopus man to ST 3 and raised the maximum.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:51 am 
Star Player
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The team is creative with lots of interesting skills, but the team builder template always turns out expensive, poor teams unfortunately. Khemri are one of the worst non-stunty teams in Blood Bowl, but I think they're still better than this one. Its not your fault though :(

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 Post subject: Re: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:52 pm 
Legend
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This dreadball chap?

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 Post subject: Re: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:02 pm 
Legend
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As to the team it is of course an excellent Nurgle alternative.

I see where you are going, an alternative I was thinking after seeing them was having a varient on Slann. Namely the frogs are Slann that have taken to worshipping horrible beasties. So a combo of Slann linemen and the monsters they have started to worship :)

Not sure if I would include some Impact sharkmen or not in your team. If so you should drop the octopus to 2 (because they are identical models :) ) otherwise you can field a team with no linemen.


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 Post subject: Re: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:31 am 
Emerging Star
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Fassbinder: I thought this team was ok and even scary with development. Would you change anything to the roster?

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 Post subject: Re: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:38 am 
Emerging Star
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Chris: that crab man is ok. Kinda buggy for my taste. A slann variant is interesting. I did think the fish men look a bit like Greebo slann.

On my team I think I would definitely include the shark men, mostly because they were unlocked in the deluxe package kickstarter. It did cross my mind that it would be possible to not include any 0-16 choices. Is there any other teams that can do that? Can't think of any off the top of my head. If we do lower a maximum I would say it would probably be the anemone diver mostly because my friend really wants 4 octopus men.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:06 am 
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Quote:
It did cross my mind that it would be possible to not include any 0-16 choices. Is there any other teams that can do that?

Underworld, with 0-12...

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 Post subject: Re: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:12 pm 
Legend
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Orcs - 4 black orcs, 4 blitzers, 2 throwers, troll, 4 goblins...
Then humans to a lesser extent - 4 blitzers, 2 throwers, 4 catchers (though why?), Ogre.


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 Post subject: Re: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:23 am 
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Fish man - this guy is OK. Reasonably durable, kind of a crappy Rotter without the Decay. The AG2 will make it difficult to skill them.

Anenome diver - He's a Wight that can't block but has a 50% chance of hypnotising someone, for 90k. That is not a very good player, but interesting at least.

The Octopus man is terrible. You're paying 80k for a guy who can't utilise any of the skills you're playing for because his stat line is awful (a zombies). People will just block him rather than worry about the tail. The Tentacles won't work most of the time, again, people will just block him. Sure Hands is useless because at MA4, he's a rubbish ball carrier. At least he has access to Stand Firm, which is his lone saving grace, but even then, Block, Stand Firm is 16 SPP's away. Thats a lot of shuffling down the sideline praying he makes it in for a TD.

Shark Man - The first three players are crappy, but redemption is at hand with the overpowered Shark Man. He's a 16SPP CPOMB machine, one track development is no good.

Crab Man - this guy would be OK if the roster didn't feature the immeasurably better Shark Man. Why pay 140k for a Wild Animal piece when you can pay 120k for a killer who works all the time? Poor crabby will just there praying for a 4+ so he can stand next to somebody.

For 980k, I can buy 8 fish, 2 anenomes (Ball Carriers) and 2 sharks with four rerolls. I would fill out the roster with anenomes.

This probably comes across as harsh criticism, but I'm only trying to min-max the roster as if I saw it in the CRP. On an individual basis there are some interesting players but the roster doesn't feel like a team, the way that playing Dwarves, Nurgle or Wood Elves does. Its just a bunch of stat lines thrown together.

People say that Nurgle is a 'reef & shark' team, that features sturdy blockers that are difficult to move (the reef) and blitzing pestigors that swoop in (the sharks). The fish could swim in between (stunty) the reef. Extend the aquatic theme into the playstyle (buff the Octopus and nerf the Shark) and I think you'd be on to something

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 Post subject: Re: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:52 am 
Emerging Star
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Cool, thanks for the input fassbinder. Not harsh input, it's exactly what we were looking for, a thorough examination of the roster. I appreciate it.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:15 am 
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Originally the roster had upto 4 ST4 octopus and 2 ST3 sharks but I didn't like the octopus men being stronger than the sharkmen so we moved it to both having equal ST but changed the octopus to 0-2 choice since having 6 ST 4 guys with skills seemed too powerful. After a playtest we moved octopus men to st 3. Do you think we should go back to ST 4 octopus? 0-4?

Also,what do u think about changing the frenzy to something else, juggernaut for example?

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 Post subject: Re: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:32 pm 
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Da Crusha wrote:
Originally the roster had upto 4 ST4 octopus and 2 ST3 sharks but I didn't like the octopus men being stronger than the sharkmen so we moved it to both having equal ST but changed the octopus to 0-2 choice since having 6 ST 4 g
It's more logic to have the blockers ST4 and the blitzers ST3... no matter if there are octopus or sharks...
or at least, the blitzers could not be stronger than the blockers (there is no team like this: dwarfs blockers are only str3, and dwarfs blitzers strengh 3)


if you consider to have Str3 blockers, please build them in comparaison to the only str3 blockers of the game (the dwarves one with 4-3-2-9 block tackle thick skull for 70kpo)
Sure Hands is definitnly not a blocker skill and not a Mv4-player skill... so for 10kpo more, you have one skill less and only armor 8 (compare to 9...), and block and tackle are way better then tentacules and prehensives tails...


If you don't want blockers strongers as blitzer:
Quote:
QTY. POSITION MV ST AG. AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
0-16. Fish man. 5. 3. 2. 8. Two heads. G. 40,000.

QTY. POSITION MV ST AG AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
O-4. Anemone diver. 7. 3. 3. 8. Hypnotic gaze, regeneration AG. 90,000

QTY. POSITION MV ST. AG AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
0-4 Octopus man 5. 3. 2. 8. Prehensile tail, tentacle, extra arms. SG. 70,000

QTY. POSITION MV ST. AG AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
0-2 shark man 6. 3. 2. 8. Frenzy, claw, Juggernaut. SG. 100,000

QTY. POSITION MV AG ST AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
0-1. Crab man. 5. 5. 1. 9. Loner, Realy Stupid, claw, no hand, thick skull, sidestep. S. 140,000


Else:
Quote:
QTY. POSITION MV ST AG. AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
0-16. Fish man. 5. 3. 2. 8. Two heads. G. 40,000.

QTY. POSITION MV ST AG AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
O-4. Anemone diver. 7. 3. 3. 8. Hypnotic gaze, regeneration AG. 90,000

QTY. POSITION MV ST. AG AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
0-4 Octopus man 4. 4. 2. 8. Prehensile tail, tentacle, extra arms. SG. 80,000

QTY. POSITION MV ST. AG AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
0-2 shark man 6. 3. 2. 8. Frenzy, claw, Juggernaut. SG. 100,000

QTY. POSITION MV AG ST AV SKILLS. ACCESS. COST
0-1. Crab man. 5. 5. 1. 9. Loner, Realy Stupid, claw, no hand, thick skull, sidestep. S. 140,000

a crab looks more stupid as anything else...
extra arms better fit to octopus as sure hands i think
i'm still not a huge fan of the anemone, even with Mv7... (why not wrestle?)

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Last edited by babass on Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:23 pm 
Legend
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Wrestle and tentacles would be an interesting quandary!


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 Post subject: Re: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:15 am 
Emerging Star
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Thanks for all the replies guys. I've been waiting for my friend to come back from a vacation before replying. He will be back soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep ones roster
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:10 pm 
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Hello coaches, thanks again for all the great replies. Da Crusha and I appreciate your help in making from scratch a roster for a team of minis with no gaming background. I am old to BB(playing since 1988) but new to TFF. With that, I would like to give props to bizzydog217 and their Octopus team concept. It is pure coincidence that our roster line-ups are similar. The octopus team has some good ideas and would like to think we could work to make the rosters playable and interesting if not fun.
I talked with Da Crusha and decided to try out this version:

0-16 Fishman 5/3/2/8~ Two Heads 40k G/APS

0-4 Anemone Diver 6/3/3/8~ Hypnotic Gaze, Regeneration 80k AG/PS

0-2 Octopusman 4/4/2/8~ Prehensile Tail, Tentacles, Extra Arms 100k SG/AP

0-2 Sharkman 6/4/2/8~ Frenzy, Claw 110k SG/AP

0-1 Crabman 4/5/1/9~ Claw, Side Step, Thick Skull, Wild Animal, Loner 140k S/AGP

Rerolls: 60k
Thanks again for all the input and let us know what you think.


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