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How do you resolve overtime in your league?
NFL Style (New kickoffs every 8 turns, sudden death, until there's a winner) 16%  16%  [ 4 ]
World Cup Style (New Half with new kickoff, no sudden death, then randomness/penalties) 16%  16%  [ 4 ]
Cyanide Style (No Kickoff, keep adding 4 turns to the clock until someone is ahead) 16%  16%  [ 4 ]
We allow no Overtime, ever 24%  24%  [ 6 ]
Other (please explain) 28%  28%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 25
 
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 Post subject: Overtime
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:47 am 
Super Star
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I've played in leagues in both the United States and in Europe, and one of the things which amused me is how differently Overtime is handled.

In my league in the US, every tied game went to overtime, even regular season games. Overtime was a new 8-turn half, with a new cointoss, played with sudden death rules (meaning the first team which scores wins immediately, aka "Golden Goal"). If this overtime ended with nobody scoring in the regular season, the game is a tie. In the playoffs, another 8 turn half is added, the team who received in Overtime kicks, sudden death rules again, and so on until somebody scores.
This is how the NFL handles overtime.

In my league in Europe, regular season games never go to Overtime. If the score it tied after turn 16, the game is tied. If this happens in the playoffs, one single 8-turn half is added, with a new cointoss. No sudden death, all 8 turns are played out. If this ends in a tie, the winner is decided randomly (dice-off or cointoss or whatever).
This is similar to how many soccer leagues handle overtime.

Cyanide has what I think is the worst possible Overtime rule - if the game is tied after turn 16, four turns get added. No new kickoff, whoever has the ball keeps the ball. My orcs once had a 16 turn touchdown drive against some poor Dark Elves whose coach didn't know how Overtime worked, and chose to kick at the start of the game.

Overtime is funny, it's not defined at all in the rules (perhaps this is something that a new BBRC could look into) so every league has their own house rule about how to resolve it. And what's amusing to me is how much this is influenced by whatever sport is locally popular. You don't even need to discuss it, it's just obvious that this is how Overtime works.

So anyway, how does it work in your league?

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 Post subject: Re: Overtime
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:58 am 
Super Star
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Having played a 64 turn match on Cyanide, i can say I'm not a fan of their overtime at all :)

But then giving one team the ball and saying 'first to score' doesnt seem too fair either. Cant think of a perfect solution tbh, maybe give one team the ball and let the other team go first (blitz kickoffs working in reverse)?

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:13 am 
Legend
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Our regular season games just end in a draw. For games that need a winner we've gone through various versions:
1) another half, new toss, golden goal
2) same as above, but no kick off result: it's automatically a Blitz!
3) penalties (it's complicated and arbitrary, but it's fast and more fluffy than a coin toss)

Now we basically use 3 unless both coaches agree on another method of settling the draw before the game begins. It's far from perfect but it at least means that coaches who are tight for time can at least predict when their match will be done to within an hour or so!

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 Post subject: Re: Overtime
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:21 am 
Da Spammer
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rolo wrote:
Overtime is funny, it's not defined at all in the rules

P.11 of the CRP pdf (p.15 as numbered):
Quote:
The team with the most touchdowns at the end of the last turn of the second half is the winner. If the match is tied at the end of the second half it is declared a draw unless both coaches agree to go into !sudden death overtime." Flip the Blood Bowl coin to see which coach chooses who kicks-off, and then play a third series of eight turns per team. Any re-rolls still remaining at the end of the second half (including re-rolls earned from Kick-off events, Inducements or Special Play cards) are carried over and may be used in overtime, but teams do not receive new allocations of re-rolls as they normally would at the start of a new half. The first team to score wins the match. If neither team scores, then the match is decided by a penalty shoot-out; each coach rolls a D6, high score wins, re-roll ties! Each unused team re-roll adds 1 to the D6 score.



We don't have OT for regular season games at all - if you can't win in 16 it's a tie.
For play-offs/finals we used the rules as per the rulebook, but I think it will change to having each team have 4 turns receiving - if neither/both score than repeat, but will depend on the coaches involved and time.

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 Post subject: Re: Overtime
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:52 am 
Experienced
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During playoffs only, 8 turns, sudden death, coin toss, one extra half then penalties.

I have suggested 2 new halfs a 4 turns, no sudden death, then penalties. This to make the coin toss matter less but so far i'm the lone supporter in my league for that idea.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:59 am 
Legend
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Penalties, on the other hand, are not laid out in the rulebook. Here's our own house version if anyone's interested:
http://nzbbn.com/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=625&start=20

Im not endorsing these for widespread use, just sharing what we use in case someone else is looking for ideas.

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 Post subject: Re:
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:03 am 
Da Spammer
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Shteve0 wrote:
Penalties, on the other hand, are not laid out in the rulebook.

From my post above:
Quote:
If neither team scores, then the match is decided by a penalty shoot-out; each coach rolls a D6, high score wins, re-roll ties! Each unused team re-roll adds 1 to the D6 score.

(Not that I like that rule, nor would hope to ever need it, but it is there.)

P.S. You need to be logged in to see what's on your link.

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 Post subject: Re: Overtime
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:04 pm 
Legend
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Straight up LRB6 rules....

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 Post subject: Re: Overtime
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:18 pm 
Emerging Star
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Given the danger of extra injuries, I'm not a fan of overtime in non-playoff/advancement games. When it happens, I like a full additional half so that the coin toss isn't overwhelmingly important.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:25 pm 
Legend
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Apologies, you're right. A straight roll-off.

Here's how we do it (thanks for the heads up on the registration wall, I'll look into that) as described by my glamorous assistant. Note that the coaches may agree (before the game) to play overtime, blitz overtime, roll off or coin toss if they prefer.

ramchop wrote:
The Rationale

The final and playoff rounds of any WBBL season should be a grand occasion, with an audience. Instead, they can often feel attritional - after playing out three hours of concentration that secures a hard fought draw, the prospect of immediately embarking on another hour or more of high intensity gaming can be seriously unappealing. Furthermore, spectators are highly unlikely to stick around to watch extra time - if the players aren't enjoying the added grind it's doubtful the crowd would. And practically speaking, the pub may well close before a result is reached.

Add to that, while the rule we have at the moment is an improvement on the standard OT rules, it still doesn't address the core problem that overtime presents.

The Proposal

At the end of normal time, playoff matches go immediately to penalties! Each coach gathers together all players that finished the game on the field, plus any remaining reserves, and attempts to recover KO'd players as normal. This is the pool of which the coach may draw his penalty takers!

Penalties in blood bowl take the shape of players taking it in turns to try and boot the ball from a fixed point on the pitch over a bar at the end of the pitch. To represent this, each coach must determine an order in which his players will take penalty kicks. The game is won on the basis of best-of-five penalties per team... if the result is still tied after five penalties then we enter Sudden Death, and each team gets a round of one penalty each until one player can be declared a winner. If a team runs out of penalty takers, their taker order starts again from the top of the list, just like in football. A flip of the coin determines which team goes first.

Penalties are taken as follows:

1. Roll a d6, and add the penalty taker's Strength. If the total result is seven or more, the shot has enough power - move on to step 2. Remember that a roll of a 1 always fails and a roll of 6 always succeeds!
2. Roll another d6, add Agility and the whole result from step 1. If the combined result is 13 or more, the shot has both enough power and is on target: a goal is scored! Remember that a roll of a 1 always fails and a roll of 6 always succeeds!

Five kickers each, in the event of a tie it goes to a sudden death kick-off.

- Players with Kick may reroll 1 of the 2 dies rolled.
- Big Guys must pass their handicap rolls before being selected as a penalty taker. Bone-Head, Really Stupid and Take Root are 2+; Wild Animal is 4+. (i.e. if they fail the roll someone else can fill their slot in the kicking line up)
- Accurate adds +1 to the 2nd roll
- KOs have a chance to recover before the shootout. Injured and sent off can't participate.


The Odds

Here's the expected value table, taking the best 5 kickers for each team:

VA 0.56 0.56 0.56 0.56 0.56 2.78
OG 0.51 0.51 0.51 0.51 0.51 2.55
CH 0.53 0.53 0.53 0.53 0.39 2.50
KH 0.53 0.53 0.53 0.53 0.33 2.44
NU 0.44 0.47 0.47 0.47 0.47 2.33
OR 0.44 0.47 0.47 0.47 0.47 2.33
AP 0.47 0.47 0.47 0.47 0.39 2.28
UN 0.53 0.53 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.22
WE 0.51 0.42 0.42 0.42 0.42 2.18
CP 0.51 0.44 0.42 0.39 0.39 2.14
CD 0.47 0.47 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.11
NO 0.47 0.47 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.11
NE 0.47 0.47 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.11
DE 0.42 0.42 0.42 0.42 0.42 2.08
EL 0.42 0.42 0.42 0.42 0.42 2.08
HE 0.42 0.42 0.42 0.42 0.42 2.08
HU 0.51 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.06
LI 0.44 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.00
SL 0.44 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.00
UW 0.44 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.00
KD 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 1.94
SK 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 1.94
AM 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 1.94
DW 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.33 1.89
HA 0.51 0.51 0.25 0.25 0.25 1.77
GO 0.44 0.44 0.25 0.25 0.25 1.63

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 Post subject: Re: Overtime
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:41 am 
Legend
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If draws aren't permitted, what Darkson pointed out is written in the rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Overtime
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:19 am 
Veteran
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Our league recently ran a knockout-style event and used the following overtime rules. The wording is a bit clunky, but the players who had games that went to overtime seemed to approve of them.

Overtime Rules
No drawn matches in The Coffee Cup. Matches that finish the second half with scores even will be required to go to Overtime. The field is cleared at the end of Turn 16 with a new drive to commence with all Knocked Out players recovering over the long break however team Rerolls do not replenish due to tiredness. Only Rerolls remaining at the end of Turn 16 can be used.

The winner of the coin toss to start overtime has a choice (a or b). They can either;
a) choose to make the usual choice on Kick off (kick or receive) or
b) choose one of the following options - an extra RR, automatic Perfect Defense Kick off result, automatic High Kick Kick off result or a Bribe.

The winner of the coin toss picks a) or b) and the other coach receives the remaining option. The coach making choice a) makes their decision and tell the opposing coach. The second coach then makes their selection from options b).
Play then continues as normal until the first TD is scored which ends the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Overtime
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:55 pm 
Legend
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We allow league games to end in a tie.
But cup games have overtime, and we do it like this:
1. Coin flip - winner chooses
Offense sets up first.
If offense does not score in 5 turns, then defense wins.

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 Post subject: Re: Overtime
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:12 am 
Star Player
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In my current league in Brussels:
Overtime only during playoff.
Following rules fromage crp.
Except for the final: if draw at the end of the extra 8 turn, a 2nd leg game will be organized.We added this exception on the fly. All the people watching the final between Kwek and me asked for a new game at the end of the Overtime instead of the toss.

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 Post subject: Re:
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:19 pm 
Emerging Star
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Shteve0 wrote:
Apologies, you're right. A straight roll-off.

Here's how we do it (thanks for the heads up on the registration wall, I'll look into that) as described by my glamorous assistant. Note that the coaches may agree (before the game) to play overtime, blitz overtime, roll off or coin toss if they prefer.

ramchop wrote:
The Rationale

The final and playoff rounds of any WBBL season should be a grand occasion, with an audience. Instead, they can often feel attritional - after playing out three hours of concentration that secures a hard fought draw, the prospect of immediately embarking on another hour or more of high intensity gaming can be seriously unappealing. Furthermore, spectators are highly unlikely to stick around to watch extra time - if the players aren't enjoying the added grind it's doubtful the crowd would. And practically speaking, the pub may well close before a result is reached.

Add to that, while the rule we have at the moment is an improvement on the standard OT rules, it still doesn't address the core problem that overtime presents.

The Proposal

At the end of normal time, playoff matches go immediately to penalties! Each coach gathers together all players that finished the game on the field, plus any remaining reserves, and attempts to recover KO'd players as normal. This is the pool of which the coach may draw his penalty takers!

Penalties in blood bowl take the shape of players taking it in turns to try and boot the ball from a fixed point on the pitch over a bar at the end of the pitch. To represent this, each coach must determine an order in which his players will take penalty kicks. The game is won on the basis of best-of-five penalties per team... if the result is still tied after five penalties then we enter Sudden Death, and each team gets a round of one penalty each until one player can be declared a winner. If a team runs out of penalty takers, their taker order starts again from the top of the list, just like in football. A flip of the coin determines which team goes first.

Penalties are taken as follows:

1. Roll a d6, and add the penalty taker's Strength. If the total result is seven or more, the shot has enough power - move on to step 2. Remember that a roll of a 1 always fails and a roll of 6 always succeeds!
2. Roll another d6, add Agility and the whole result from step 1. If the combined result is 13 or more, the shot has both enough power and is on target: a goal is scored! Remember that a roll of a 1 always fails and a roll of 6 always succeeds!

Five kickers each, in the event of a tie it goes to a sudden death kick-off.

- Players with Kick may reroll 1 of the 2 dies rolled.
- Big Guys must pass their handicap rolls before being selected as a penalty taker. Bone-Head, Really Stupid and Take Root are 2+; Wild Animal is 4+. (i.e. if they fail the roll someone else can fill their slot in the kicking line up)
- Accurate adds +1 to the 2nd roll
- KOs have a chance to recover before the shootout. Injured and sent off can't participate.


The Odds

Here's the expected value table, taking the best 5 kickers for each team:

VA 0.56 0.56 0.56 0.56 0.56 2.78
OG 0.51 0.51 0.51 0.51 0.51 2.55
CH 0.53 0.53 0.53 0.53 0.39 2.50
KH 0.53 0.53 0.53 0.53 0.33 2.44
NU 0.44 0.47 0.47 0.47 0.47 2.33
OR 0.44 0.47 0.47 0.47 0.47 2.33
AP 0.47 0.47 0.47 0.47 0.39 2.28
UN 0.53 0.53 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.22
WE 0.51 0.42 0.42 0.42 0.42 2.18
CP 0.51 0.44 0.42 0.39 0.39 2.14
CD 0.47 0.47 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.11
NO 0.47 0.47 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.11
NE 0.47 0.47 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.11
DE 0.42 0.42 0.42 0.42 0.42 2.08
EL 0.42 0.42 0.42 0.42 0.42 2.08
HE 0.42 0.42 0.42 0.42 0.42 2.08
HU 0.51 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.06
LI 0.44 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.00
SL 0.44 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.00
UW 0.44 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 2.00
KD 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 1.94
SK 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 1.94
AM 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 1.94
DW 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.39 0.33 1.89
HA 0.51 0.51 0.25 0.25 0.25 1.77
GO 0.44 0.44 0.25 0.25 0.25 1.63



This!
Looks like a great way to settle a playoff game..

In our league I played a Skaven vs Skaven 32turn Final playoff game. Thats just too long and not very fun end.

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