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 Post subject: Rat Ogre for underworld teams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:52 am 
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Hi, I play in a very small TT league, just 4 players. We haven't done a whole of house rules or tweaks, just made humans a bit cheaper. I was thinking of trying an underworld team, and wondered what you more experienced players thought about adding a rat ogre to underworld. I don't think they necessarily need to be competitive, but I think a rat ogre would make them even more chaotic and fun. They are fairly expensive already but if a price increase is necsesary to make it fair that's fine. Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Rat Ogre for underworld teams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:42 am 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
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Well, I just looked at the Underworld team roster and I think, just adding one makes them to powerful.

That would mean Underworld could field two big guys. That might be okay with the Goblins or the Halflings, who, on their own, couldn't even stand first half against bashers.
But Underworld has Skaven Throwers, Blitzers and Linerats too.
They are all pretty quick (MA 7), the throwers are quite decent ball handlers and even the linerats (ST 3) can handle a block or two.
A 16,67 % chance that a Skaven wouldn't hand over the ball to a Goblin might be a hindrance but it's not that bad.
So a Troll flinging Goblins down the field in addition with Skaven flinging the ball right after them is quite some weapon, I think.
Having another large beast that could tear through your opponents ranks doesn't sound fair to me.

Maybe if you replaced the troll with the rat ogre?
You could remove the troll completely from Underworld roster and replace him with the rat ogre.
Or maybe you could add a house ruled skill to the Warpstone Troll and Warpstone Rat Ogre, like "Rivalry"

House rules wrote:
Rivalry (Extraodinary)
A player with this skill loathes players from his team that are a different race than he is and are as strong as he is. He absolutely refuses to be on the same team as the other player. The player can not be hired if there is another player with an original stat ST equal or higher than his own original stat. No stat increase or decrease will be taken into account when this skill is activated.

This means you could either hire a troll OR a rat ogre, but never have both on your team at the same time.
So you couldn't field the troll after the rat ogre has been injured or sent off, but it still gives the team a little more variety.
Since we only look at the original stats, the troll will be the only other player to activate this skill on the rat ogre and vice versa.
Opinions?

Wouldn't this thread be better in the house rules section?


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 Post subject: Re: Rat Ogre for underworld teams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:38 am 
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That's a cool idea, I didn't think with both they'd be too powerful but that's why I asked you guys who have played for way longer haha. My bad about the section, I didn't see it.

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 Post subject: Re: Rat Ogre for underworld teams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:15 am 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
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I am also not what you might call experienced when it comes to rules and tweaking them.
I played a fair few games of Blood Bowl, yes, but I've never been one of the top players.
So my opinion could be completely wrong.

I just thought that there is a reason, that only Goblins and Halflings could field two big guys.
And that reason might be to smooth out their weaknesses.
Let's just wait on other players to give their opinion too.

And hey, don't worry about picking the wrong forum.
If one of the admins thinks it should go in some other forum, like house rules, they'll move it. :wink:
(But that doesn't mean you shouldn't consider the right forum in the future... :orc: )

I just reread my first post and thought about Star Players.
That Rivalry skill would also mean that some Star Players couldn't be hired without retiring your big guy.

Available Star Players to Underworld:

  • Bomber Dribblesnot, Goblin, ST 2, no problem
  • Fezglitch, Skaven, ST 7, not while troll is on the team
  • Nobbla Blackwart, Goblin, St 2, no problem
  • Skitter Stab-Stab, Skaven, ST 2, no problem
  • Glart Smashrip Jr., Skaven, ST 4, no problem
  • Morg ā€˜nā€™ Thorg, Ogre, ST 6, can't be hired with any of the big guys on the team

Maybe the "two big guy" thing is also the reason why neither Headsplitter nor Ripper Bolgrot may be hired for Underworld teams...
And should this "Rivalry" skill be tweaked to exclude Star Players?
In my opinion, it shouldn't. Just adds a little more flavor to the whole thing. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Rat Ogre for underworld teams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:38 am 
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If you want to keep Underworld as better than the stunty teams but worse than most normal (Human, Orc etc) then either no, or just repleace the Troll with the RO (which would be a slight nerf for them). If you want to make them better (especially if you have no halfling, ogre or goblin teams in the league) then sure, go for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Rat Ogre for underworld teams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:39 am 
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I wouldn't bother with any additional rules or changing the stars...

Adding a R.O ? probably not a great idea

Replacing a Troll with a R.O?? why not, sounds like fun.

I actually think the R.O is more "in flavour" with the rest of the underworld, fast but quite fragile (for a big guy that is :wink: )

I play underworld and enjoy them, the R.O is a much better big guy than the troll, however he's more expensive and you lose the 1 Turn TD option ( the R.O cannot throw gobbo's)

Correct answer....... Give it a try, see how you get on and let us know. :D

**Edit** I disagree with darkson (in a nice way) I think a R.O would improve the team, not nerf it!! especially if he gets the same skill access as the U/W troll (U/W Rat ogre)

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 Post subject: Re: Rat Ogre for underworld teams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:00 pm 
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Rat Ogres are expensive and not all that great, there is a reason that a lot of skaven teams forgo them.

I don't think adding a RO would make underworld too strong at all, it might boost them too much above the other stunty teams. So if you are trying to avoid that then an alternative may be to allow them to take a rostered secret weapon or 2.

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 Post subject: Re: Rat Ogre for underworld teams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:34 pm 
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Boosting them above the Stunty teams is fine, I just didn't want them to become a top team. I play skaven mainly and have never gotten a rat ogre to work well with them, which is why I figured he wouldn't be a huge help. He's expensive, kind of fragile, and I've always had a hard time with his frenzy because the team lacks guard to give easy assists. Underworld would have the same problem I'd think. I'll definitely play a few matches with the RO and the troll and see how they go, thanks for the input.

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