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 Post subject: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:45 am 
Legend
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Hi Guys,
I used to have a 4-Gods Daemon team, that I was quite happy with.
I haven't used it since Cyanide released it's version of Khorne Daemons, but I've started to think about them again.

I should note that it is a team combining daemons from the 4 powers. I know it is not the way of the 1980'ies. I own 'Slaves to Darkness' and 'The Lost and the Damned', and I loved that era, but AFAIK the 4 powers are on better terms in the GW universe now. So I'm doing a combined team, just like a combined daemon army.

Other than that, I'd love to hear from fluff buffs?
*If you only had 1 skill for each basic daemon (bloodletter, plaguebearer, daemonette and horror), which would be the quintessential skill - for you?
*Should daemons have access to mutations? Or is that for mortals only?
*Should daemons have regeneration or not?

Thanks all
Martin

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:59 am 
Legend
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To respond to my own topic first:

*I guess daemons should have regeneration.... But I'm not sure. The only official Daemon (Beast of Nurgle) has it. Then Again - it's nurgle, so that could explain the regen. On the Cyanide team, the Bloodletter and Bloodthirster has it. But the herald, strangely, does not.

*Mutation access... Again, the Beast of Nurgle has it. The Khorne daemons do not - but that may well be a design decision due to not wanting to create Graphics for all those mutations. I could see the argument for daemons having a fixed form. Then Again.... I'm inclined to say mutations on doubles. (Singles on the Horror).

Key skill:
- Plaguebearers: I'd say foul appearance. Runners up: Disturbing Presence (which does seem to go with Foul App - would it be too weird to have one without the other), Regen - if all daemons don't have regen, Thick skull - if all daemons do have regen.
- Bloodletters: Frenzy. Runners up: Horns (they have them, then again so do plaguebearers - but AFAIK they don't use them for goring), Piling On. Not Claw - that's quintessentially Slaanesh.
- Daemonettes: Claw! Runner up: Hypnotic Gaze - for me not neccessary, but am I wrong here?
- Horrors: Hard to say really. Extra arms. Runner up: Big Hands - but that was probably in the 80'ies rendition of them. The new ones don't have big hands AFAIK. Also, I quite like the slaanesh versions that have right stuff and TTM on all Horrors. I just might go there...

I know this probably won't be a fluff buff's dream, because I don't want to overdescribe - but I'd love to hear what you think.

Cheers
Martin

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:13 am 
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Quote:
*Mutation access... Again, the Beast of Nurgle has it. The Khorne daemons do not - but that may well be a design decision due to not wanting to create Graphics for all those mutations. I could see the argument for daemons having a fixed form. Then Again.... I'm inclined to say mutations on doubles. (Singles on the Horror).

i would say, it does depend of the god.
tzeentch it should be on simple, for everyone.



The fumbbl/horror roster for the horrors will be a very good based.
The theme with spam on TTM and on bomber is very fresh :)


i do like this one for slaanesh:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37140&p=747482#p747482



everyone here is ok, that the khorne cyanide-one does not exactly match what we would expect for a khorne roster (ie: sounds strange, this roster does not have any killer profil...)


the CRP nurgle is quite fine.
but would need maybe small improvment imo.
(either the positionnal are too expansive for standard tourney format, either the linemen are too fragile for leagues format, imo)

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:52 pm 
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Hey plasmoid I do like your glass-canon daemon team, if you want to make an all-chaos-god-daemon-team:


"0-4 Plaguebearers 70K 5 4 1 7 Foul Appearance, Thick Skull GM
0-4 Horrors 70K 7 2 3 7 Regeneration, Extra Arms GPM
0-4 Daemonettes 70K 6 3 4 7 Claws, No Hands GAM
0-4 Bloodletters 70K 6 4 1 7 Horns GSM"

If you dont give all the daemons regen, then you need to give them something, so they cant be turned into a Zombie or Nurgle Rotter, for fluff reasons

But i would make separate chaos teams for each god (we already have nurgle)
I really like this one for Slaanesh:

Image

Daemonettes gets regen, inpart to fluff reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:21 am 
Legend
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Hi guys,
thanks for your replies.
I was hoping for more though. Still am.

@Babass - I think you misunderstand. I am not looking to make a team for each god. I'm looking to make 1 daemon team, just like a daemon army. So I was asking what would be the fluffiest skills to represent each minor daemon. And whether daemons should generally mutate and regenerate, or not.

@Bakunin: Thanks. That is indeed the team I'm looking at revamping. But I want to make the right fluff decisions. I like that slaanesh team, but I'm doing something else. I see you have gaze on the daemonettes. Is that need to have or nice to have for you?

Cheers
Martin

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:51 pm 
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Quote:
@Babass - I think you misunderstand. I am not looking to make a team for each god. I'm looking to make 1 daemon team, just like a daemon army. So I was asking what would be the fluffiest skills to represent each minor daemon. And whether daemons should generally mutate and regenerate, or not.

In this case, we do not some special rule (like a new skill) : stronger than animosity :)
or at least animosity on all positionnals :)
ie: something showing those guy are not really a true team

Concerning the other must have / very nice to have
The horros :
- must have : Regen (or a new skill for the split from Pink to blue horrors, the blue ones being stunties?), and access to mutations on simple:
- nice to have: TTM and Right Stuff (i really do like this fumbbl new approach :) ) , extra arms and/or big hands

The daemonnettes:
- must have : Claw, and no hand
- nice to have : ag4 (+ very long leg, if still in the fluff?)
then i see different approach (foul apparance or hypno)
I do see the need of regen here.
Mutation only on double
AG on simple

The Plaguebearers:
- must have : get free rotter/zomby (but usable only for the ongoing game), when oppenent are hurt/rip by this guy
regen
foul apparences
- why not : decay ? thickskull

The korn one:
- must have : piling on!
- nice to have : frenzy, no hand (to symbolyse this guy don't care about the ball)
- potential new skill "appetit for blood" doing something like "when this player does a first blocking casualties during a game, he gets for free the skill mighty blow till the end of the game" (or an additionnal bonus on injury?)


i don't feel the need to have strengh 4 in this team.
full strengh 3, could be nice.



Then, the problem of this roster, is 'what would be the journeymen" ?

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:51 pm 
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Concerning the other must have / very nice to have

The Team:
All must have regen or a team rule that says that: not one of them can be turned into a zombie or rotter..

The horros:
- must have : Extra arms, Access to mutations on simple,
- nice to have: Regen, TTM and Right Stuff (like on fumbbl)

The daemonnettes:
- must have : Claw & No hand and Hypno Gaze!, AG on simple, Mutation only on double (Hypno Gaze is the most Slannesh skill out there, so if you are going to put daemonnettes on the pitch, it seems half measures to not include Hypno Gaze.
- nice to have : ag4, Regen (AG4 is not a must, but allmost since the no hands)

The Plaguebearers:
- must have : Foul apparences, Nurgle's Rot, Mutation on Simpel
- nice to have : Thickskull, disturbing presence, Regen

The Bloodletters:
- must have: Frenzy, STR4 (or Horns), STR on Simpel, No Mutations at all!
- Nice to have: Regen, Jugger!


plasmoid wrote:

@Bakunin: Thanks. That is indeed the team I'm looking at revamping. But I want to make the right fluff decisions. I like that slaanesh team, but I'm doing something else. I see you have gaze on the daemonettes. Is that need to have or nice to have for you?


Gaze is very much need to have

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:18 pm 
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@Plasmoid
Also I would love to playtest the Daemonette teeam or the Hobgoblin team I showed you in (a) your PBeM league.
But would also be up for playtesten your Daemon team if you would put them to use.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:32 am 
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Quote:
Hypno Gaze is the most Slannesh skill out there

FYI, Eldril get this gift from Tzeench following the fluff :)

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:06 pm 
Emerging Star
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babass wrote:
Quote:
Hypno Gaze is the most Slannesh skill out there

FYI, Eldril get this gift from Tzeench following the fluff :)


So Vampires get Hypno Gaze from Tzeench aswell? :wink:

Tzeench is the magic guy that does a bit of everything. . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:09 pm 
Legend
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Hi Bakunin and Babass,
thanks for your take on the Daemons. Anyone else? Harvestmouse? Darkson? Garion?

Anyway, Babass said:
Quote:
something showing those guy are not really a true team

Only one of them will have any real shot at the ball, so animosity is really not needed. But they'll have expensive rerolls.

Everything else - duly noted!

Oh, and they'll need a special rule for journeymen.

Bakunin:
Regarding the statlines you basically only disagree with Babass over whether Bloodletters should have Piling On or Frenzy.
So far so good.
For the daemonettes, if they had Gaze they would (IMO) have to have AG3 (but A skills) or they would become a problem.
Regarding Khorne, I disagree that they shouldn't get mutations. AFAIK Khorne followers do mutate. They just don't use magic.

Oh - and - you're welcome to use the pbem client to set up games/League of your own. I'd be happy to give you access.
You're also very(!) welcome to play in the NTBBL. But I won't be allowing any non-NTBB teams. Not my own daemons. Nor yours. Sorry.

Cheers
Martin

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:27 am 
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Yes, STR4 Blockers and AG4 Hypno Gaze would be hard to balance out.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:01 am 
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that's why i do suggest to put ONLY str3 players on this team...

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:31 pm 
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babass wrote:
that's why i do suggest to put ONLY str3 players on this team...


I see that, but shouldn't a bloodletter be able to go toe-to-toe with a Black Orc or Chaos Warrior? Or am I getting the fluff wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:51 pm 
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i see more these daemon as a blitzer than a blocker.

horros = throwers

daemonnettes = special positionnals (like the witch in Dark Elves)

Plaguebearers = "blockers"
(but a "str3"-blockers, like the dwarf ones)

Bloodletters = blitzers
(with "blitzing" and "killing" skills, like juggernaut and/or horn and/or pilling on and/or frenzy)

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