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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:40 pm 
Legend
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Hi Babass,
the team that has existed in many many different incarnations all had 8 ST4 players. It was/is one of the unique features of the team.
ST3 bloodletters is one of the (relatively few) Things I have a hard time with on the Daemons of Khorne team.

Anyway, given the suggestions from you and Bakunin, the players could look something like this. Let me hear your take on pricing:

0-4 Plaguebearer Lineman 5-4-1-7 Regen, Foul Appearance, (Nurgle's Rot) G (APSM)
0-4 Bloodletter Blocker 4-4-1-7 Regen, Frenzy GS (APM) < Perhaps not G on singles?
0-4 Daemonette Blitzer 6-3-3-7 Regen, Claw, Gaze, No Hands GA (PSM)
0-4 Horror Thrower 7-2-3-7 Regen, Extra Arms, ? GPM (AS)
or
0-4 Horror Thrower 6-2-3-7 Rgen, Extra Arms, TTM, Right Stuff GPM (AS)

...
So, past experience with the team indicates that the 0-8 ST4 players on this team is actually OK.
But I am worried about combining that with Gaze, TTM or both.

But it sure looks like a crazy daemonic team on paper :orc:
Cheers
Martin

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:09 am 
Emerging Star
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Why would the bloodletter only have MV4? I would make it MV6 like on your old team. It also needs to keep the G.
The Daemonettes seems a little Underwhelming, but its hard to know how good 4+ gaze is. It will still be good against catchers.

So following Tom Anders rules:

0-4 Plaguebearer Lineman 5-4-1-7 Regen, Foul Appearance, Nurgle's Rot G (APSM) 70k (-10k discount)

0-4 Bloodletter Blocker 6-4-1-7 Regen, Frenzy GS (APM) 100k

0-4 Daemonette Blitzer 6-3-3-7 Regen, Claw, Gaze, No Hands GA (PSM) 80k (-20k for no hands)

0-4 Horror Thrower 6-2-3-7 Regen, Extra Arms, TTM, Right Stuff GPM (AS) 70k

Rerolls: 70k, No Apo

So a TV1000 build could be:

4 Plaguebearers
2 Bloodletters
3 Daemonettes
2 Horrors
2 Rerolls

(if gaze is too good on the Daemonettes, or if its just not used because its too bad on a 4+, you could remove it and make them AG4 and keep them at 80k)

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:10 am 
Da Spammer
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plasmoid wrote:
Anyone else? Harvestmouse? Darkson? Garion?


Ok.

#1 Don't do it.

If you ignore #1 then:

#2 No Khorne/Slannesh on the same team, nor no Nurgle/Tzeentch - I don't care what their newer (sell more models) fluff says, I'm old school "Realms of Chaos".
#3 All Daemons should have Animosity to Daemons from other Gods.
#4 Bloodletters should have No Hands (because they don't care about the ball, not because they don't have hands).
#5 All Daemons should have M on normal rolls they're Daemons for Nuffle's sake!
#6 Horrors are (at least) man-sized so Right Stuff makes no sense - now if you wanted to have rules for Blue Horrors then I could see them having RS.
#7 Plaguebearers must have Horn(s).


So overall, not impressed.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:43 pm 
Legend
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Hi Bakunin,
it is a major fluff/design point for me that all daemons should be the same Price/power. In a United Daemons team, no god should be above the others. So, each god has 0-4 players of the same Price. The old team was 70K players. With regen, anything less than 80K is unlikely. This does affect the statlines I'm going with, which is why I asked "what is required to portray each daemon". The other reason for that is avoiding over-description, which can easily occur on any homemade team - but especially on a team with as outlandish players as daemons.

Coincidentally, that's why I put the Bloodletters at MA4.
Not that I see it as out of character to have MA4 on a blocker/ST4 type player.

Cheers
Martin

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback for Daemon team
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:00 pm 
Legend
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Hi Darkson,
sorry for the delay, and thanks for your feedback.
I know that we're not seeing eye to eye on this, but I still value feedback on what daemons should be like.

Quote:
#2 No Khorne/Slannesh on the same team, nor no Nurgle/Tzeentch - I don't care what their newer (sell more models) fluff says, I'm old school "Realms of Chaos".

I get that. I own(ed) both RoC books too. I remember them from when I was in elementary school.
But now my kids are in elementary school, and I've moved on.
That's not to say that I'm following GW into Age of Sigmar madness. Just that I'm happy with the alternative warhammer universe that BB is set in - and the Warhammer World before some GW exec pushed the big reset button in the sky.

Quote:
#3 All Daemons should have Animosity to Daemons from other Gods.

I'm trying to avoid overdescribed (or just overly long) statlines. It seems every new team has to have Animosity for some reason.
I've tried to take care if it by only a single player who will realistically handle the ball.
That, and expensive rerolls.

Quote:
#4 Bloodletters should have No Hands (because they don't care about the ball, not because they don't have hands).

I went with AG1 instead, as this also reflects their unwillingness to run from a fight.
Also, I'm very wary of proxy skills, because they easily get misunderstood. Case in point:

Quote:
#6 Horrors are (at least) man-sized so Right Stuff makes no sense - now if you wanted to have rules for Blue Horrors then I could see them having RS.

RS/TTM horrors has been a popular way (on other Chaos teams) to show Horrors teleporting. With proxy skills. Leap migh work just as well - though a lot less spectacularly.

Quote:
#5 All Daemons should have M on normal rolls they're Daemons for Nuffle's sake!

I asked that in this very thread.
AFAIK, daemons mutate less than mortals(?). At least that's what some people seem to think.
Either way, the only official daemon in BB (Beast of Nurgle) has mutations on singles, so I've let that set the precedent.

Quote:
#7 Plaguebearers must have Horn(s).

I get where you're coming from. Duly noted.
My thinking/question is: Do plaguebearers have the kind of horns that are used for goring opponents. Or are they more ornamental?
Because the skill should only be put on players that actually do with the horns, what the skill lets them do.
In fact, a previous version of mine had Horns on the Bloodletters - but I was told to take them off for that very reason.

My other consideration is over-description.
If everything about them has to be reflected in a skill, then they easily become:
5-4-1-7 Foul App, Dist. Presence, Regen, Thick Skull, Horns, Nurgle's Rot.
(At least that's the skills that have been suggested to me in the past).

But I'm certainly aware of your preferences now. That's 3 people. 4 if I count myself.

Cheers
Martin

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