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 Post subject: Field Goals
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:45 am 
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Seeing too many draw matches?

Seeing too many "lets wait with scoring the tieing td" matches?

Maybe field goals would be the answer!

How can field goals be added into the game?

Using the kick skill just like the pass skill of course. You can still kick a field goal even without the kick skill. But simply using all the rules the same as pass. The only thing I would change is adding an additional -1 modifier to the "kick" for field goals. The kick could be enhanced much the same as pass with other skills. A pass could be enhanced with strong arm and accurate. Where as a kick would be enhanced much the same with specific skills in which to be enhanced. I would eliminate the fumble from a kick though, but add in that a kick can only be attempted if within range, and if the kick were to be inaccurate, it would automatically be thrown back in by the fans from a spot determined by an additional d6. That d6 would be a d2 to determine if the ball scattered left or right of the center of the field goal posts. The rest of it can be done by the throw in rules of the current game. And yes, pass block could be used to position a player to block the kick in much the same way as a pass. And maybe even catch it if they are lucky.....

How would it work for scores?

Well, that is the interesting part. The points for a TD would have to change. I would say 4 points for a TD. So for field goals, I would say they would be valued at 2 pts. Or you could make it 2 and 1 respectively, but that would eliminate any "extra points after TD" concept.

What about spp's?

I would say that making a field goal would be worth 1 spp. Maybe even two if playtesting proved field goals to be less often than casualties.

What do you guys think of this?

The reason I came up with this idea was mainly due to the amount of draw games. Of which to me, should be on the rare side of things. And field goals would or may decrease teams on waiting to score the tieing or winning TD's. And perhaps make the game a bit more exciting.

Other reasons include but not limited to:

1) Game seems to favor the bash style/high armor teams for the long term. Not often do you see them reduced in TV in a drastic measure in seasonal games. Especially when they wait on last turn TD's....

2) Four skills (maybe more) go against or counter high agile/dodgy teams. But for strength, two skills can possibly help counter... Adding in the field goal option adds in an extra element for all teams, but more for the high agile teams naturally. Why? Instead of getting beat on, being outnumbered repetitively, and hopefully get lucky for a defensive TD. Now there would be an added element favoring non-bash teams.

3) Scores are for one game only. Injuries are permanent. Bash style teams should suffer as much as the higher agile teams, but in a different way. Not entirely sure of how that should be, but maybe if this idea gets playtested, it might be an answer....


Last edited by FatZomby on Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Field Goals
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:47 am 
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oh, I forgot one thing. Can only kick or pass in a turn, not both! Handoffs are still good though!


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 Post subject: Re: Field Goals
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:44 am 
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I've always liked the idea of kicking field goals in Blood Bowl as an alternate method of scoring, and I've always thought that making the Kick skill equivalent to Pass with the addition of other equivalent skills would be a good way to do it. However, I can't help but think that people with high-agility teams could exploit it as a way of getting easy wins.

Maybe, as a solution to this, kicking could be restricted to the last few turns of the game (or extra time, depending on the league's ET rules), making it solely a late go-ahead or game-sealing score. Another way to prevent such an exploit, rather than giving field goals a points value and increasing that of touchdowns, could be to only count field goals as a score if the teams are level on TDs, as a kind of tiebreaker. I believe this was common in the days when games like rugby and soccer were just public school games in Britain, so it would fit the old-world theme of Blood Bowl quite nicely.


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 Post subject: Re: Field Goals
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:41 am 
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In my library of old game-related PDFs, I found one for Blood Bowl that was called "Kicking".
Here is a part of that text:

PDF 'Kicking' by Allen Young wrote:
FIELD GOALS
Players can attempt to drop kick the ball through the posts in order to score points. A field goal attempt is the kick action for that turn, so neither another kick action or a Pass action can be declared in the same turn in which a field goal is attempted. If you are using field goals, then a TD is worth 3 points and a field goal worth 1 point.
Field goals can only be intercepted if the player is within 2 squares of the kicker and under the range ruler. Pass Block can be used against field goals. To kick a drop goal (field goal) the player declares a kick action, with the target square being one of the 3 central squares in the opposition endzone. Because of the concentration required, a player is NOT allowed to move as part of the kick action, they must make the kick from the square they started the turn in. They do not however need to start the turn with the ball, and can have it handed off to them during the turn.
A field goal attempt is always a Turnover.
Due to difficult nature of drop kicks, the range is increased by one band i.e. a Short Kick is actually a Long Kick. Also note that Long Kick is the furthest that a drop kick can be attempted.
The range is measured to this square and then the following modifiers are applied.
  • -1 if attempting a field goal from one of the wide zones.
  • -1 for each opposition TZ that the kicker is in.
A roll of '1' before or after modification is a fumble and a roll of '6' before modification is always a success.
If the kick is inaccurate then roll a D8 to see which direction the ball misses in. The ball travels one square for each band of range of the kick, in the direction indicated by the D8.
  • Quick Kick – 1 square
  • Short Kick – 2 squares
  • Long Kick – 3 squares.
A Field Goal is scored if:
  1. The kick is accurate
  2. The kick was inaccurate from the left wide zone but the D8roll was in the forward right direction (i.e. in the direction of the kick).
  3. The kick was inaccurate from the right wide zone but the D8 roll was in the forward left direction (i.e. in the direction of the kick).
  4. The kick was inaccurate from the central zone but the D8 roll was in the straight-ahead direction (i.e. in the direction of the kick).
If a field goal is scored then play is restarted as though a Touchdown had been scored by the field goal scoring team. If the kick is missed and the ball lands on the pitch, then any player who occupies that square must attempt to catch it. If it lands in an unoccupied square then the ball bounces once. In either event remember it is a Turnover.
If the ball lands in the crowd, then a touchback occurs and the opposition coach can chose any of his player's that are in his own half to give the ball to. If there is no such player then the ball is
thrown back in as normal, but from the central endzone square, regardless of which direction the ball left the field. N.B. only kicks that land in the crowd are a touchback, kicks that bounce into the crowd are thrown back from the square they last occupied, as normal.

I'm not a fan of house rules but if anyone wants the PDF, I got it right here.
It's not only about Field Goals but Kicking and making the kick skill more useful in general.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:10 am 
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How would you restart play after a kick goal?

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 Post subject: Re:
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:14 pm 
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Shteve0 wrote:
How would you restart play after a kick goal?


if the field goal/kick goal scored, then treat it as if you scored a TD and do the normal re-setup. The person who last scored kicks the ball.

for everything else, as long as the attempt was made, its a turnover period. That means as long as a die was rolled for doing the kick, its a turnover. No exceptions.

I made the rules as simple as I could do them. And it kind of makes sense. I thought about automatically giving the ball to a defensive person if the field goal was missed, but what if there wasn't a player in which to give it to? So I squished that idea. And besides, it made more sense for fans to throw the ball back in as play is still happening....

As far as sideline kicks, I declined that again to make it simplified (in other words, they are either allowed or they aren't allowed at all for sideline kicks). Simply use the passing range ruler and treat it like a pass, but with kick skills and a -1 modifier to it in addition to any modifiers normally applied for passing. So a quick kick would mean 0 modifier, a short kick would be a -1 modifier, Long kick would be a -2 modifier, and a jumbo kick would be a -3 modifier (if I have all the names of the range right...). Then also add in any tackle zones for modifiers just like a pass, etc....

Pass Block would also apply to kicks. Kicks are just another means of a pass, but with different intent. I do like, however, from Regash's pdf about the distance of which an "interception" can be attempted, but for simplicity I am leaving that out. Besides, an interception roll on a kick could mean a screwed up kick that couldn't go the distance and the player therefor was able to catch it.

Lastly, I don't think this could be exploited... A few reasons why:
1) -1 modifier limits this greatly as chances of success drops steeply with range!
2) Field goals are valued less in points in comparison to a TD.
3) Keeps opponents honest for defensive set-ups.
4) May limit those that like to stop before a TD on early turns of a game and wait it out until the last turn knowing that the opposition may get the tie-breaking Field Goal.

Anyway, the idea for all this is to keep the ball moving. Nothing is more boring than a stagnant ball that just sits there.


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 Post subject: Re: Field Goals
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:21 am 
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You can also read these:

http://www.midgardbb.com/Experimental/Kicking.html

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 Post subject: Re: Field Goals
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:24 am 
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GalakStarscraper wrote:


very well written. clear rules and easy to follow.

But it seems complicated and extremely rare for a successful field goal even at short distances.

Teams don't need a specialized kicker for the position, but it does open up possibilities for that to change. The reason is that kick is a general skill. And that means that most teams can get them as they grow.

And it would seem fair in saying that you grow a kicker as much as other teams grow to counter it.

Simplicity seems to work for the better here.

What my idea brings is simplicity. But it also adds change to how people may wish to grow their teams.
Other abilities will have more impact. Abilities like kick, pass block, disturbing presence (maybe), and catch for examples. Other abilities could be altered as well, such as leap and long legs to possibly help counter this. In addition, abilities like tackle, diving tackle, tentacles, etc... will help hinder opponents from position themselves for a shorter kick.

But I don't think making it more complicated than passing is the answer. The complication, if any, should be the difficulty of the kick itself. And the field goal should be about the only thing for kicking skills. as much as I like the kicking opponents with kickers in the linked document, it is already shown, said, and/or imagined when players make blocks and fouls.

Making a kick is already a turnover and pretty hard to do with a -1 modifier instantly added to it. So it should stay less frequent than scoring TD's.
A quick kick is almost pointless as you should be scoring a TD when coming that close to the scoring endzone. So more often than not, you should be kicking field goals with at least a -1 modifier to the kick. If a proper defense is set up, then kicking the field goal will be all the more harder as well. Usually making it where the opponent must make a hole and get past the defense for an easier field goal...or submit to an attempt that would more than likely need a 6 to get one anyway.

And yes, seeing attempted field goals on last turns will be probably be often. But will pretty much already be hard to get, and most definitely be exciting to watch win or lose (or draw). And if that makes ya mad, think of how the opponent feels when ya are pounding him to having no team left and just sitting there with the ball.... Remember me saying that injuries are permanent, but a TD is only one game? That means you are growing your team while they are digressing with theirs. My opinion would be that field goals are a fair thing to incorporate. Also, keep in mind that bashy teams are more likely to score shorter field goals. So it almost comes out the same....

And also, this makes the dynamic of whether you receive the ball first or kick first be all the more important to bashy teams!!! (hint: whoever receives first gets the last turn of regular timed matches).


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 Post subject: Re: Field Goals
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:29 am 
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As with some other people ideas and how they think about their own though, my idea sounds great!

But...I do agree that it isn't a great idea until it is PLAYTESTED!

Too bad I live out in the boonies. Finding other players aside from the video game is rather difficult...lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Field Goals
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:12 am 
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FatZomby wrote:

Too bad I live out in the boonies. Finding other players aside from the video game is rather difficult...lol.


www.garykrockover.com/BB/

I'm playtesting a whole set of new house rules using the VASSAL module that adds "downs", "field goals", "first downs" and actual "plays" (i.e., American Football style). You could use any rules that you want and field any type of team that you want. Plays live online vs others or you can even play via email (or my preference, dropbox).

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