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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:11 pm 
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Bakunin wrote:
As I understand it, Brets Where at 45% win - now they are up to 50% with A-acess. So the team seems to be in the sweet spot now.

They were also in an incomplete version of the game, with no lower tier teams, so the % needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:39 pm 
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BBRC is over, there is an new version of blood bowl.

But it seems like plasmoid have designed the team to be "tier 1" - so the win%, should not be over 55% at NAF tourneys.
And theres nothing in the roster that screams that it is more OP than the sacred Wood Efls or Undead.

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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:30 pm 
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Bakunin wrote:
BBRC is over, there is an new version of blood bowl.
And nothing has changed about the way they are calculating team power. Confirmed on facebook from Andy Hoare.
Quote:
But it seems like plasmoid have designed the team to be "tier 1" - so the win%, should not be over 55% at NAF tourneys.
No, he was aiming for 1.5: http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtop ... 755#p66755


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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:09 pm 
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dode74 wrote:
Bakunin wrote:
BBRC is over, there is an new version of blood bowl.
And nothing has changed about the way they are calculating team power. Confirmed on facebook from Andy Hoare.
Quote:
But it seems like plasmoid have designed the team to be "tier 1" - so the win%, should not be over 55% at NAF tourneys.
No, he was aiming for 1.5: http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtop ... 755#p66755

Seems unusual coming from you dode. The active agent with the power and authority to make the change decided Bretts needed to be stronger and implemented it. End of story.

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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:32 pm 
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CyberedElf wrote:
Seems unusual coming from you dode. The active agent with the power and authority to make the change decided Bretts needed to be stronger and implemented it. End of story.
No, it's consistent. I wasn't saying it shouldn't have been done but that it was not necessary, i.e. they did not need to do it. That they wanted to do it is a separate thing: as you say, it's theirs to deal with and, given it's one of their "features" of BB2 it didn't come as a huge surprise.
I and others were asked what the buff should be and several of us suggested A access on blitzers.


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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:52 pm 
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sann0638 wrote:
Yep, good nudge to update.

Does that mean that the link to the NAF article (http://www.thenaf.net/2015/09/unofficial-races/) will be updated with the "new" Bretonnian roster with blitzers having access to agility skills on a normal improvement roll?

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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:32 pm 
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Yes, that's the plan. They're not NAF-legal anyway, so it's just a reference to BB2. Makes sense for it to be up to date!

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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:00 pm 
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Giving the Knights agility access was a good idea, before that they had very few interesting skill choices.

They are still an expensive version of the already overpriced human blitzers, but this way you can take some cool skills as they develop.

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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:12 pm 
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spubbbba wrote:
Giving the Knights agility access was a good idea, before that they had very few interesting skill choices.

They are still an expensive version of the already overpriced human blitzers, but this way you can take some cool skills as they develop.

next nice updates on this roster would:
+ remove this stupid P-Access on simple
+ RR at 50k like humen
+ animosity on the knives (they don't like to give the ball to the not nobles players of their team)

This way, this roster would fine (imo)


(even if i still think Juggernaut would have been a better choice - following the fluff - as dauntless)

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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:14 pm 
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babass wrote:
spubbbba wrote:
Giving the Knights agility access was a good idea, before that they had very few interesting skill choices.

They are still an expensive version of the already overpriced human blitzers, but this way you can take some cool skills as they develop.

next nice updates on this roster would:
+ remove this stupid P-Access on simple
+ RR at 50k like humen
+ animosity on the knives (they don't like to give the ball to the not nobles players of their team)

This way, this roster would fine (imo)


(even if i still think Juggernaut would have been a better choice - following the fluff - as dauntless)


-If you remove P access on simple 1) the leader of the team will be someone other than a knight and 2) in a developed team you will have a first ballhandler that will not be a knight.
- RR at 70 is too bad, RR at 50 is probably too good.
-Animosity on the knights is a fantastic idea (although you should modify the wording of the skill) I love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:01 pm 
Legend
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Rolex wrote:
-Animosity on the knights is a fantastic idea (although you should modify the wording of the skill) I love it.


It would certainly be better, but my problem with the team is that they are so bland. Less interesting stats than normal humans and a bunch of random skills and skill access thrown in just to be different. We already have the super bland amazons and until lrb5 bland norscans so didn't need a 4th human team.

I'd have much preferred the knights to be good versions of chaos warriors with ST4 or have some cool skills like regen or disturbing presence.

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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:26 pm 
Legend
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Hi all,
Babass said:
Quote:
+ remove this stupid P-Access on simple
+ RR at 50k like humen
+ animosity on the knives (they don't like to give the ball to the not nobles players of their team)

For what it's worth:
+I like the P+A access. It shows the Bretonnian preference for finesse. Quarterbacks rather than killers.
+With incompetent peasant levy on the team, I'd say 50K is too low.
+See, I considered that, but decided against it. Partly because the skill would have to be rewritten, and partly because not every new team has to have animosity :o

Spubbbba said:
Quote:
I'd have much preferred the knights to be good versions of chaos warriors with ST4

I understand the inclination.
But to my mind, no knight who would deserve the ST4 stat would bother with BB.

Cheers
Martin

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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:49 pm 
Legend
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Hi all,
Dode said:
Quote:
No, he was aiming for 1.5: http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtop ... 755#p66755


It's a bit more complex than that actually.
3 posts up from the one you quoted, I said:
Quote:
When designed they were intended to be low tier 1. Which is roughly the same as what Dode calls tier 1.5.
Not because I wanted them to be particularly weak. But because I didn't want to risk them breaking the game.
Our small scale testing couldn't really prove anything tangible about their power level. So I ended up going safe. Perhaps overly so.


I wanted middle of tier 1. But I aimed for low tier 1 - because I did not want to risk overshooting the middle of tier 1. Better safe than sorry - especially because I didn't know whether Cyanide would do anything if the team was overly good.
Part of this was that just as Cyanide was preparing to unleashing them in the computer game, I was contacted by a very convincing coach, who told me they were completely OP. So I got cold feet and nerfed them.

Myself and a lot of the people that tried them (prior to Cyanide picking them up) wanted them to be tier 1, because there hasn't been a new proper tier 1 team in a long time. So when I said (in the post you quoted) that some people were unhappy that I made them tier 1.5 - I meant that I was overly cautious and accidentally made them (probably) tier 1.5.

Not that any of that really matters anymore.
I liked the team with just GP blitzers. I liked the challenge - masochistic that it may have been. And as Dode said - the stats didn't show them to be that terrible. Not definitively anyway.
But I'm also quite happy that Cyanide decided to make them a proper tier 1 team.

Cheers
Martin

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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:46 pm 
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Wait, I'm confused.
Quote:
I wanted middle of tier 1. But I aimed for low tier 1
So your goal was "low tier 1" regardless of what you say you "wanted" - you ignored the "want" and went for "low tier 1". Which is "roughly the same as what Dode calls tier 1.5" (note: it's not me who calls it that, it's the FBBRC). So what exactly is wrong when I said "he was aiming for 1.5"? After all, it's me calling it 1.5, which you say is the same as "low tier 1", which is what you said you were aiming for!

Honestly, I think the issue arises from the idea that you think you can aim for a very narrow band of percentages.


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 Post subject: Re: Bretonnian Team Roster if anyone needs it:
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:43 am 
Legend
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I wanted middle of tier 1. But knew I couldn't be certain.
Not wanting to overshoot, I aimed low. And I hit low. (Which was fine, but not what I 'wanted').
It would not have minded of they had stayed in low tier 1.
But I'm not unhappy that Cyanide decided to buff them.
Cheers
Martin

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