Piling On compromize

[Darkson]

I disagree with Dode's disagreement too, I don't find PO causes too much variance, but then I only play in formats the game was designed for.

[frogboy]

I disagree with Dode's disagreement too, I don't find PO causes too much variance, but then I only play in formats the game was designed for.

Yeah i think thats a very good point, people often forget to say what format their playing in when discussing these things, could be confusing for new guys reading this. Online vs Tournements vs League vs one off games.

[dode74]

Playing against bashy teams requires more thought on how to play. I'm not just talking about your avarage coach using Orcs for the first time but if your playing that coach who has built up a propper hurty team.

For example... Normal tactics dont work against it, you might screen off the ball and cage up, but if the bashy coach is not going for the ball the whats the point? Your five players down already with a cage whilst you oppenents rubbing hands together maximumising them 3 die blocks.
Same as stalling, leaving half your team protecting a ball for 5 turns whilst the other half of your team is overwhelmed.

Just saying, piling on dont kill people, rappers do... No wait thats wrong? Anyway just a thought, carry on

I agree with what you are saying there. I don't think it's because of the variance involved, though.

[Mystic Force]

Tgank you for the feedback, this leads me to several follow on questions.

1) Does the power of Orcs and Dwarves need to be checked? Do they go on to become boring unstoppable juggernauts with no Chaod to clip their wings?

2) Do other teams suffer more than the intended two victims? Thereby makimg it an unsatisfactory solution. (Re. Claw debate where the effect on high armour only was settled on to mean it was not just more punishment for squishy teams)

3) is the problem not CPOMB but the one dimensionality of Chaos teams, there meant to be killers, but not too much killing. Do any other teams come close in the killing stakes?

I am not so keen on the whole TV efficiency counter skills as this means you have to invest time and choices to counter things that might severely hurt your team in some games instead of making your team better.

[frogboy]

To me its not a problem, i never see it. I dont think 3 to 4 skills on a bashing team is ever going to be very quick to develop many CLAWPOMB players.

It seems to only ever a problem to a select few of the people who play online. I dont understand the change to Piling On in the first place if i'm honest, making it even harder for a bashing team to compete. Meanwhile Elves are scoring on 2s with one dice and able to rack up multiples of 3 spp's via TDs or even completions and interceptions which are all easier due to their higher movement and agility.
Running rings around slow players who's only chance to compete is to reduce players on oppenents team and hope they fail that dodge etc.

[harvestmouse]

@MF I think it depends on the TV and arena. You would need to be more specific with that.

1. At high TR in LRB4 they were a bit too powerful. At high TV afterwards under powered. Their style of play isn't popular to play against also. Death by a thousand cuts over 16 turns of life sapping play. So unless you played these rosters, there isn't too much sympathy.

2. Hmmm no. Other teams suffer, but I think these 2 suffer the most at high TV. As both these teams have AV9 and so much S access without check they can grow to terrifying proportions. However, maybe Spiralling Expenses would stifle that anyway.

3. No other team comes close to the teams that can make CPOMB players. Blodge can be a problem particularly on say Amazons. It can be quite a bashy combo. Mutations don't work perfectly. Some are hardly ever taken and much less useful. Some are good but just overlooked or unnecessary on Chaos rosters.

It's far too easy to spam CPOMB in online divisions and there is far too little to counter it.

On one hand it would be better if it were harder to get. However then that would suit coaches who can play large amount of games or get lucky. This is the Claw/RSC combo of LRB4 which needed 2 doubles.

I don't really get your last sentence. Is that regarding Fend being zero TV in certain divisions?

[koadah]

To me its not a problem, i never see it. I dont think 3 to 4 skills on a bashing team is ever going to be very quick to develop many CLAWPOMB players.

It seems to only ever a problem to a select few of the people who play online. I dont understand the change to Piling On in the first place if i'm honest, making it even harder for a bashing team to compete. Meanwhile Elves are scoring on 2s with one dice and able to rack up multiples of 3 spp's via TDs or even completions and interceptions which are all easier due to their higher movement and agility.
Running rings around slow players who's only chance to compete is to reduce players on oppenents team and hope they fail that dodge etc.

Heh heh. My league has no piling on at all. I suggested bringing in the BB2016 PO and the league members went nuts.

But yeah, the league is online. So, yeah teams can get it quickly.

Two Fumbbl coaches have played more than 300 games since Jan 1st. (Not all in my league )
Top being 368. I'm guessing those guys don't have wives. Or maybe it is because they have wives.

Two more did over 200. One of those did 295. Another 34 have done over a 100 games. Some people an get it quick.

[Mystic Force]

I don't really get your last sentence. Is that regarding Fend being zero TV in certain divisions?

That was a rather garbled attempt at typing on a phone and using brevity unsuccessfully to convey an idea. I will try again with more words and coherence!

I am not a fan in games of the I MUST take X to counter Y style of game play. In the particular case of BB, I do not like the idea of having to take improvement rolls to exclusive counter a certain type of player, that I may or may not play against. As to the efficiency argument 60k of TV counters 100k of TV this presupposes that my player will be in the right place or has to be spammed and that against another team without this CPOMB combination I am now 60K TV vs 0K TV.

There really is no good interfering modifiers available to prevent a running game of blocking like there are easy ways of making passing and dodging harder (AG modifiers from weather, special play cards, pitch rules etc) with the possible exception of foul appearance but that is not available to all, maybe we need a skill that counters Guard that is not more Guard!

[CyberedElf]

My opinions first for context. CPOMB was not overpowered, just boring. Anonymous online people just like hurting others. It didn't win too much. Getting rid of PO (or nerfing it to extinction) hurt teams that were not overperforming. New MVP rules helps those teams, but not enough. Those teams rely on player advantage, getting skills on low AG players isn't enough. Fouling is not effective enough for player removal, in its current form.

My compromise is not to try to keep PO, but to make a slight change to Claw. Make Claw work on fouling.

The teams with more mutation access are some of the teams least interested in "following rules." It is a slight buff to fouling. It is a slight buff to teams that used CPOMB. Makes more sense fluff-wise (that Claws can break armor on block but not foul is odd).

I try to avoid house rules as much as I think it possible, so I do not actually endorse any of these, but as part of brainstorming I thought this was an interesting idea.

[Skitters]

I've always thought that if a player piles on with claws that if the opponent remains uninjured then the player piling on should roll on the injury table himself (ie; has got it all wrong and lands on his own claws)