Adding a Vampire to the LRB2.0 Undead Team need feedback

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:57 pm

I stole the Vampire from Galaks homepage, can someone explain "Of For A Bite" to me ?
http://www.midgardbb.com/GWTeams/Undead.html
0-1 Vampire 110.000 6 4 4 8 Hypnotic Gaze, Off for a Bite, Regeneration, Big Guy (General, Strength, Agility)

I have a new team roster system in the works that looks like this...
RACE POSITION LEVEL MA/ST/AG/AV/NI SKILLS, TRAITS & SPECIAL ABILITIES COST (CATEGORIES)
Undead (Regeneration) Vampire (Rookie) 6/4/4/8/1 Hypnotic Gaze, Off For A Bite 110.000 (GE, ST, AG)

Note that I dropped the RC "Big Guy" for the Vampire, because it would screw the Race System I try to introduce.
To compensate that, the Vampire starts out with 1 Niggling Injury.

What do you think that the addition of 1 such Vampire to the LRB 2.0 ?

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:04 pm

There new and improved OFAB (or COFAB as it's known here) is at:
http://www.midgardbb.com/GWTeams/RevisedGWRosters.html

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:06 pm

Original OFAB: before every drive roll D6 on a 1-3 he misses that drive
revised (future OFAB): after declaring an action roll D6, on a 1 he moves to the nearest non-vampire player on his own team and feeds (auto-injury). If the vampire should have the ball, he drops it = turnover. If he does not end next to a player of his team, he runs to the dugout and spends the rest of the drive there.

I just want to add that I think that vampires are just too broken for BB, don't let me start again, but there are a couple of discussions going on. As you seem to want to include vampires I will just say something about NI to balance them: it won't work bc either he doesn't show up (screws the game for his coach) or he shows up without negative effect (screws the game for the opponent coach). I don't think that we need a STR4 AG4 player.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:16 pm

Thank you both very much !

Narcotic, let me explain quickly. I try to "get the starplayers back permanently (not freebooted) in a balanced form".
(the MINIATURES not the 3rd Edition PLAYERS !!!)
For exaple the Ogre, Minotaur, Troll are already in the game permanently - the Vampire is not.
The "new redesigned vampire roster player" does not have to be ST4 AG4 !!!

What about ST4 AG3 ?
What about allowing the HUMAN Team 1 Vampire as well, to fit the "Rule" on Count Luthor Starplayer card ?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:30 pm

narkotic wrote:I just want to add that I think that vampires are just too broken for BB,

On what do you base that narkotic???

Cannot be facts has to be just your opinion.

The MBBL has 3 new OFAB vampire teams and they've recorded a total of 17 games to date with basically a 50/50 win/loss record. If that too broken than I don't know what you think IS balanced. AND THAT WAS WITH THE VAMPIRE LORD ON THE TEAM!!!! .... now the team doesn't even have him ... I really have zero idea how you could think the team is "too broken" in the 2003 Annual format.

Galak

Oh and Toby. If you include a Vampire leave it at ST 4 and AG 4 and just have him leave the pitch to run into the dugout on a 1 before an action which is a turnover. He'll be perfectly balanced at that point based on the revised OFAB rules currently being tested.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:33 pm

You will get problems

because when the Vampire team is getting published with balanced rules and minis but you have a "balanced" (= weaker) Vampire as a Star in your Human team, everyone will ask you why the Star-Vampire is weak compared to the normal vampires in the vampire team. The Vampire team consists of Vampires and Human Linemen, both positions combined wiht the heavy negatrait OFAB (the new version) makes it balanced. If you want to add one vampire player to a normal Human team which is competitive on its own you will have to make the Vampire pretty weak.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:48 pm

Galak, what is your Opinion on "Big Guy". Can it be removed from the Vampire ? What about a starting Niggling Injury instead ?

Finally, what about 1 such Vampire for a Human Team roster ?

ps. thx

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:00 pm

narkotic wrote:revised (future OFAB): after declaring an action roll D6, on a 1 he moves to the nearest non-vampire player on his own team and feeds (auto-injury). If the vampire should have the ball, he drops it = turnover. If he does not end next to a player of his team, he runs to the dugout and spends the rest of the drive there.

OK let me get this right:

Before the Vampire is allowed to do anything else, he has to roll "OFAB".
On a roll of 1:
The Vampire runs off the pitch and drops the ball if he had it.
OR
The Vampire moves to a player on his team and bites him.

how is determinde what player the Vampire runs to ? and when does he leave the field ?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:49 pm

Toby wrote:Galak, what is your Opinion on "Big Guy". Can it be removed from the Vampire ? What about a starting Niggling Injury instead ?

Finally, what about 1 such Vampire for a Human Team roster ?

ps. thx

Sure if you give him the new OFAB ... you could remove the Big Guy from him, but he'd still be the team's BIG GUY. IE no Vampire AND Ogre on the team at the same time.

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:51 pm

Toby wrote:how is determinde what player the Vampire runs to ? and when does he leave the field ?

The Move action is entirely controlled by the Vampire coach. He leaves the pitch at the end of the move action if he has not attacked an adjacent Thrall.

Galak

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:57 pm

@Galak, sorry I haven't expressed myself in an appropriate manner: actually I am quite anxious of STR4 AG4 guys and until the new OFAB they were unbalanced (as we all agree). Now, they seem fine but the negatrait is the worst in BB and is in fact needed to balance the stats. I just wanted to say that I do not like having monster stats and slapping monster-negatrait on it to get it balanced. IMHO scrap it entirely, I don't neither like uber-stats nor killer-negatraits. It's poor game design, that was what I meant with broken, you will never have a reliable Vampire player bc he needs enormous balancing.

just my 2 cents

P.S: the same with the Ogre team, enormous STR but the team is in fact a gambling machine every turn bc there is no other way to balance the stats.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 11:09 pm

@Toby: as far as I have understood the rules, the coach has to make a move action with the vampire. You can chose if he causes an auto-injury on a teammate (when he ends his movement next to him) or if he is placed in the dug-out (when he ends his movement adjacent to none of his teammates/thralls). I'm not so sure about the droping the ball, but it would make sense.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 11:12 pm

Ok...

A. If nobody is next to the Vampire, he drops the ball and runs off the field.
-got it.

B. If a member of his team is standing next to the Vampire, he bites him. Make an Injury roll for the victim.
- may the Vampire now carry on with his action or is this a turnover ?
- if the victim has the ball (guess he drops it) is that a turnover ?

Galak, i can see what you mean, Big Guy = 1 Player & No Team Reroll.
I plan to list the Vampire as "0-1 Vampire" = 1 Player & Team Reroll.
I'm reliefed you said that should be ok

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 11:53 pm

narkotic wrote:IMHO scrap it entirely, I don't neither like uber-stats nor killer-negatraits. It's poor game design

Sorry, I just disagree completely. I very much like the new Vampire team. I think its a great addition to the game. We will just have to disagree to disagree. I think the new Vampire team is fine and I look forward to it becoming official in October.

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:00 am

Okay no offense Narkotic but since you don't like the rule, you are really butchering the explanation. Not trying to be rude, but you are flying in at 10,000 feet because you don't like the close to the ground view.

Toby here's the new OFAB works in the MBBL (which fixes two of the wording errors from the Annual):

A player with this characteristic must occasionally feed on the blood of the living. At the start of any action where the player is not stunned, roll a D6. On a 2+ the player may carry out the action as normal. On a '1', however, the player is overcome with a desire for blood. The player's team loses the declared action for that turn and the player must instead make a Move Action. If the player ends his action standing adjacent to a Thrall from his own team, immediately roll for unmodified injury on that Thrall (an injury to the Thrall is not a turnover unless he was holding the ball). If the player does not end his action next to a Thrall from his own team, then he runs into Reserves to find a pretty maiden groupie to quench his thirst. Place him in the reserves box, this is a turnover.

============================================

So the Vampire gets a move action on a 1 to move where ever the coach wants him to run to. When his move action is finished (ie nothing more happening), you check for an adjacent Thrall. If there is one, he bites him and its not an injury (as detailed above). If there is not one, he is placed directly into reserves and it is a turnover (again as detailed above). If he runs into reserves and had the ball it scatters one square from where he ends his move action.

Hopefully having the full wording will explain it better for you.

Galak