This is a "Big Guy Deathroller", is it balanced ?

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Wed May 07, 2003 11:38 pm

*EDIT*

Updated Version.

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » Wed May 07, 2003 11:45 pm

Why not just make it peaked, and then give it a penalty roll? It's a Deathroller!!! It should have a penalty roll.

Aside from that, it's how we play it.

-Balrog

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Wed May 07, 2003 11:59 pm

Balrog wrote:Why not just make it peaked

I did that first, then reconsidered.
1. Coaches might argue that a peaked player does not increase the Team Rating after he is hired. (Starplayerpoints / 5 = Teamrating increase).
2. While there is no category open to a Roller, it still is awarded a Starplayer Roll for collecting Starplayer Points. So, it might suffer a Ageing Result Roll! (This is intersting since Rollers do not suffer any Injuries).
3. If Team Rosters feature a Title, coaches have the gimmick of their Roller advancing to Veteran maybe become a Legend on their Team.

Balrog wrote:, and then give it a penalty roll? It's a Deathroller!!! It should have a penalty roll.

1. Intention is to boost the Roller because it actually is desinged to be a replacement for the Ogre. Opponents should at least face the problem of actually having to Knock Over the Roller once.
2. It never really was a "secret" weapon.
3. "The Fluff" could argue that referees do no longer dare to try to send it of because ist simply to dangerous.
4. Technically it has been moved from "SW System" to "BG" System.

Icedman · Post by **Icedman** » Thu May 08, 2003 8:34 am

I'm a little confused Toby...

Toby wrote: 1. There is no "Penalty Roll" for the Machine.
2. It is not a "Big Guy", it can use Team Rerolls.
3. Only one Roller is allowed on a Team.
4. Its availiable to Dwarf Teams only.
5. It is not peaked, it collects Starplayer points, and affects Team Rating.
6. It cannot improve, no skills or traits are accessable to it.
7. Dwarf Teams loose their Ogre.
8. Dwarf Teams are also allowed 4 Blitzers.

My Questions:

A. No Penalty Roll. Is this balanced since there's no penalty roll for an Ogre as well ?
B. Should Chaos Dwarfes get one as well ?
C. 4 Blitzers and a sucky Big Guy replace an Ogre - fair ?
D. Did I cover every possible way of "wrecking the machine" ?

On the one hand, you state that the DR is not a Big Guy (point 2) yet you ask whether 4 Blitzers and the DR (a "sucky Big Guy") are enough to replace the Ogre (question C).

If it definately was a Big Guy, I might consider it (although I think the current system with Stars is fine), but if the DR is not a BG, no way in the world (not even with only 2 Dwarf Blitzers)!!!

Why? The thing has access to the cheap (and thus, usually plentiful) Dwarf TRRs, which it would only ever need to use for blocking (it ignores TZs and doesn't have to dodge, as you stated in the Special Rules, and besides, it comes with SF). About the ONLY thing an Ogre has over this is that the Ogre can pick up Block.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Thu May 08, 2003 12:35 pm

ahm... are you aware of the SW "Deathroller" and the rules for this atribute ? You do not have to break it's armour. All you need is a single "Both Down", and the Machine is considered to be "Badly Hurt", and it can never get Block (other "Monsters" can). However, I heres an updated version of the thing, thats easier to rule:

Dwarf Machine

Code: Select all

04|07|01|10 Mighty Blow,Multiple Block,Stand Firm,Deathroller 160K Peaked

Race:     Dwarf (Thick Skull)
Position: Machine (1)

Deathroller (Special)

The Machine is...
- too solid and sturdy to be tackled. Ignore Tackle Zones when it moves.
- deadly when it takes a Foul Action. Add +6 to the victim's Armour Roll.
- wrecked for the rest of the game if it gets Knocked Down or Falls Over. Change it's status to Badly Hurt.

1. no "Penalty Roll", it does not get sent off by the referee.
2. no "Big Guy", it can use Team Rerolls.
3. "Peaked", it does not collect Starplayer Points.
4. replaces the "Ogre Big Guy".

My Questions:
A. No Penalty Roll. Is this balanced?
B. Should Chaos Dwarf Teams get a Machine as wel ?
C. Should Dwarf Teams also get 2 more Blitzers?
D. "Knocked Down" & "Falls Over". Does that cover every way of "wrecking" the Machine?

Even if you don't like it do you think this works ?
If not, why?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu May 08, 2003 12:39 pm

um isn't that just exactly the same as the star player, except you are buying it rather than freebooting?

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Thu May 08, 2003 12:48 pm

Hi Groumble.
Yes, its is with the Exeption of "No Penalty Roll".

Any Opinion on my above Questions?
Do you think the Machine should collect Starplayer Points and get exposed to Ageing Rolls ?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu May 08, 2003 1:20 pm

well considering it can use rerolls its going to be hard to get off the pitch, can't fail a dodge, hard to get a block in on it, reroll double skulls etc

going to make dwarf cages very easy to move down the pitch with st7 multiblock

with no penalty roll or agingor the big guy skill I think its too powerful

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Thu May 08, 2003 1:28 pm

I think of 2 Things:

1. make it NOT peaked, but open no category for it.
(while it collects Starplayer Points, all its does is age, get rusty, and increase the team rating)

2. remove "too solid and sturdy to be tackled. Ignore Tackle Zones when it moves" form the "Deathroller" Special, but give it the "Break Tackle" Skill instead. (it has to rolls to doge and can only use the skill once per player turn)

What do you think ?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu May 08, 2003 1:41 pm

be simpler to give it buy guy or the penalty roll like the star player has

chsic · Post by **chsic** » Tue May 13, 2003 4:52 pm

Hello,
In my league, for dwarves I will replaced Ogre by Deathroller like you tony (i.e: like deathroller Starplayer) but he don't have Thick Skull AND

:
The penalty roll is replace by: the deathroller never has Takle Zone...

This is logic for me that the deathroller don't have this and resolve the balance problem imho.
That think you of that?
I believe that the old stars players is become freeboot because they had too much importance in a league, so this "new Deathroller not - freebooting" must not be stronger than old Starplayer imho.
To concern add players for dwarves roster, I will change preferably 0-4 Runner Rather than 0-4 Blitzers, the dwarves team need speed above all imho
Chris

duff · Post by **duff** » Thu May 15, 2003 3:36 am

"going to make dwarf cages very easy to move down the pitch with st7 multiblock"

But also real easy for the opponent to work around and rip into from behind. You won't want to move it at more than 4 and risk going for it with the DR and your longbeards.

Also, it isn't too hard to place players so multiblock dosn't help, spacing them out and using backups

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Thu May 15, 2003 5:31 am

Under the current Deathroller rules, giving it Thick Skull is like giving a Treeman the trait Spikes. It doesn't really do anything. Knock the Deathroller over, it's done for the game, regardless of the injury roll.

grotemuis · Post by **grotemuis** » Wed May 28, 2003 3:09 pm

shouldn't it be strength 6?
the same as a treeman

chsic · Post by **chsic** » Wed May 28, 2003 5:30 pm

grotemuis wrote:shouldn't it be strength 6?
the same as a treeman

1) Deathroller not being able to evolve, it is more logical than it is identical or almost to the normal deathroller (ST 7).
2) In BB 3 edition, the deathroller stayed in the team when it was hired(as starplayer), so, it should work like that!:)