So as was suggested let's start over with basics:
Toby has suggested that if Blood Bowl was done up in an internet community based high software package that the masses would flock to it like Starcraft. Okay, the concept is cool ... let's address some points raised though without all the negative stuff surrounding the discussion.
Quotes are Toby's:
It should be mentioned that the scale is different. I agree with Christer on this one ... all those games have heavy elements of real time. Blood Bowl as software would never reach these types of popularity because it is turn based. Toby has mentioned that he believes that turn based software could sell millions of copies ... I just have to disagree ... I don't think turn based can ever compete with real time in a computer junkie's diet.The Game of Blood Bowl is a joke compared to commercially sucessfull Games like Starcraft, Diablo, Ultima Online or Counterstrike. Germany is second to the USA the Biggest market for PC Games and over here only a verry small few of people even remembers Blood Bowl, let alone still plays it.
I'll agree with the didn't know the game previously ... someone who is a fan ... no way. The fans of the game love both the PBeM Tool and SkiJunkie's Java client ... hands down no argument. When you find the person who is a fan of the game and tearing these games apart, I'll buy your statement. The game of Blood Bowl is VERY complex ... you are not going to suck in the audience you discuss because of game time and the rules. In order to create the type of mass market appeal that you desire you'd need a real time interface with GREATLY simplied rules and then its not Blood Bowl anymore. Microprose came out with a software version of Blood Bowl several years back and it FLOPPED ... you can get it on Ebay for $5. I really do believe that the only upgrade you could do to SkiJunkie's program and the PBeM tool which target to different types of players is to make the graphics 3-D ... short of that those games ARE the software products that you come up with. You've repeatly knocked both products ... I have to ask an honest question which I haven't seen you reply to yet ... have you played with either piece of software?All the tools you talk of are fan projects which, while ambitious and great for fans, would be torn apard in any review of a software Magazine that did not know of Blood Bowl previously or someone who is a fan of the game.
I don't really care at all about 50k tournaments ... big money destroyed Magic the Gathering's fun in my opinion ... so the tournament prizes aren't a draw for me at all. Blood Bowl has been around since 1986 its approaching 20 years old ... 15 years from now I'll beat the farm no one will still be playing Starcraft.Balancing is clear is the single most important thing in Strategy Gaming, and if you think it is perfect in Blood Bowl i can only tell you, no one would play that Game ofer a Period of 5 Years like Starcraft and no one would earn 50.000 $ by winning a Tournament like top Gamers do.
Toby in order to understand your position, I need you to directly answer this. What is SkiJunkie's program missing (other than 3-D graphics and some common area to trade like you want ... (again I think trading players is a very very very very very very bad idea)). I'm leaving the PBeM tool out of this question because its a different target market and could never be mass marketed. The only post I've seen that gives me some hints as to your issues with the SkiJunkie and PBeM program was this:think about Blood Bowl with the new possibilities of the Internet in Mind, get those thougts on Paper in a way that is detailed enough to maybe convince someone at Games Workshop that this could Work. So GW could present that to their Software Partner and say: look we got a Concept for one of our Games to try transfer it to a electronic Plattform here, lets go make a fantastic Game.
The problem is you cannot still have Blood Bowl and make the game so that Johnny on the street can grab it off the shelf and rock and roll. The game is complex ... much more so in my opinion then Warcraft 3, StarCraft, Diablo, Ultima, etc., etc., etc. There are 13 balanced (yes, very balanced) races that provide unheard of diversity and challenges. The Living Rule Book as a software manual would never fly ... because on top of all of that you'd need to add in all the instructions for running the software itself.unless you already know bloodbowl, are fa fan of it, played before, or are pushed to give the game a try by a friend, you will probably not get acces to the game. (which starts to get interesting only as soon as the game mechaniks are known to you, and you have an general oversight of what's included in the game)
A total Blood Bowl, Games Workshop, Warhammer World, Tabletop newbie will most likely not attracted by a Game that is not on the same Technical and General Quality Level as Warcraft 3 for example.
I know you wanted discussion only on HOW DO WE DO IT? .... but in order for me to help such a discussion ... I need to ask first ... IN ORDER TO BE A MASSIVE BLOCKBUSTER SELLER, WILL IT STILL BE BLOOD BOWL? I like your idea, but I've been on both the internet side of computer gaming and Blood Bowl and I don't see the two marrying any better than what you already have offered by SkiJunkie's program as a base without starting to strip out the things that make Blood Bowl ... Blood Bowl ... see the shortening the game thread if you disbelieve.
The reason I'm posting this is I appreciate your spirit, but in order to get GW to respond you'll need a sales pitch that folks like the TalkBB crowd could agree with ... because like it or not the TalkBB crowd is your best source for gauging an idea you'd present to Jervis and Andy.
Last item:
I have to correct this one as its not true. Blood Bowl is a currently actively supported game by Games Workshop. It is available in their online store and if its not in your store already ... it will be if your store starts carrying the Fanatic display cabinet that Jervis is rolling out. Blood Bowl Magazine #1 was the MOST heavily sold magazine publication in GW history and that was only a year ago. New miniatures are coming out for the Khemri team in a couple/few months. New miniatures for the Amazon and Lizardmen teams along with a new Treeman and Thrud the Barbarian over the last year. A Blood Bowl website was started by GW in the last month along with a free copy of the rulebook online. Later this year, the NAF will be officially off and running which will track tournament points across the world for Blood Bowl coaches and will even give credit for online play ... these points will be used for invitationals for possible World Blood Bowl championships in England. Blood Bowl Magazine is going to start being published again in the fall.I only said what i think blod bowl is right now in my opinion. (discontinued by Games Workshop, unavailiable in Stores)
So, my question is and I really would like to hear your opinion (I mean this sincerely (no sarcasm)) .... does this sound like:
Bottom line for me Toby ... I would love to help you with your dreams and ideas. I'm still missing the ground work though for your position. I'm hoping this post enables you and I and others to start over and maybe we'll all get something out of it.discontinued by Games Workshop
Galak
But thats another topic really isn't it?
), what are the people potentially existing in, what are potentiel difficulties ... Please take it as a real advice, without shooting you down in flames !!! Let's imagine you make your doc file, and send it to Blood Bowl games designers, or to GW marketers... What they will look ? If you'd had some experience before about what you talked about, and if you have a coherent project. You can talk about a 50000 USD prize, and 10000 people playing with your tools, if GW marketing service makes a study in which it appears that this project would be interesting for 1000 people only, you would loose your arguments, even if the basics of your project (ie game mechanics, ...) are good. See what I mean ?
