I'd appreciate it if you looked over these stadium rules.

neoliminal · Post by **neoliminal** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:05 pm

http://www.oldboysleague.com/stadiums.html

I'll be testing them in my local league, but I want to have many eyes look over them first. Tell me what you like, what you don't like and what you'd add if you had a chance.

Thanks!

John -

Piepgrass · Post by **Piepgrass** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:15 pm

hi Neo.

I looked them em over, and found them rather interesting.
I think i´d try them just as they are if i were to use a new set of weather/stadion rules.
They seem wellthought out and can definitely add a new element to the game.
Have a go with them and give us some feedback on how they worked for you.

Poul

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:45 pm

my cursory suggestion, a slight adjustment to the astrogranite and lush turf rules... insead of making them adjust blcoking roles but not be cumulative, have them do something new and interesting and adjust roles that otherwise never get adjusted, and therefore introduce something unique... what i mean is have them modify armor roles for action that result in the player falling down... failed dodges, gfi's, etc... so, a +1 to the armor role for any check made as a result of the player falling over for reasons other than being blocked...

i'd also add a few more options at the lowest end, maybe even some downright crappy stadiums to the mix and the disadvantages that come with them (hooligans, dangerous dugouts (aligators), etc).... reinforce the idea that low-end teams have a stiff hill to climb before they get to the big time... might be seen as penalizing new teams, but these things are evenly applied and it might be fun....

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:57 pm

I want Home and Away games. A team should be able to customize their stadium to their advantage, for money, of course.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:03 pm

Actually, this topic now comes up when I've pretty much decided to do away with Stadium rules for the MBBL2 as they are too much work for me as commish.

Keeping in mind that I'm scraping one set of rules because of the overhead ... I'll need to relook at Jon's with my new view of Stadiums and see what I think.

Galak

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:09 pm

I like the look of these.
We were messing around with some ideas like them a while back.
They look as though there will be a lot more weather conditions in use other than 'perfect'.
Luciens comment on the astrogranite seems fair too, should be for whenever a player falls over

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:34 pm

the ability to buy and enhance a stadium only serves to further warp the game in the favor of older teams... granting a competitive advantage to one team, or even both teams in "home" games is sticky wicket...

on the one hand, this is the sort of investment that will encourage players to see their teams as 'teams' and as an organization where players come and go but the sweater stays the same, and that's the sort of thing i'd prefer to see encouraged in teh game, and i've even tried to further the notion of organization-building in the past...

but, with this ability comes a great price, inherent advantage... even in this new era of short-treasuries, the ability of a handful of teams to have consistently more favorable and beneficial circumstances for their games... maybe they don't have weather problems, maybe they get more money, maybe they have better armor saves on their home turf, whatever it is, they don't face the hardships of teams without those stadiums...

is this a good thing? that is the question...

like i said, i like the idea of encouraging development of team over development of a gang of players, but i don't like institutionalizing the dominance of a few teams...

what i like about john's rules is that they're random, they give a bit of fluff and a bit of randomness, but they aren't built into the system in any way other than the fact that fana factor tends to encourage better stadiums, but even the best stadiums modufy only a handful of factors...

if you want home stadia instead, don't let them have as much impact as even john's do... give them trivial benefits... istead of his soft turf, perhaps a greenskeeper who lets the home team reroll 1 gfi per half... one-shot or lesser effects.... those would add benefit, but would not upset the game's balance...

so, that's the trick, balance... it's such a simple term and such an impossible goal...

jeffzimm1 · Post by **jeffzimm1** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:47 pm

I definitely like the rules, especially the weather. Even if you want to simplify the rules and say that the players have a "home" stadium, you can still use the weather charts in order to represent the region a team comes from.

I much prefer this over the simplified weather chart in the LRB.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:29 pm

I am still in the thinking mode of buying Star Players...

So, customizing your Home Stadium is an investment like buing a re roll.
Better, longer played Teams simply have more Re Rolls, or as it used to be, more Star Players ! Thats a good thing ! and there is still the handicap table.

Re Rolls are Limited to 8, and a Home Stadium Advantage should be limited as well, but a harder injury forcing surface would definitely suit a chaos team.

These Rules should apply to "Premier Teams" only, that is the experimental rules (LeagueOfTheirOwn) term for a team that plays a "real" league with a schedule. (of home and away games)

Tournament Play should be in a couple of official stadiums, predesigned.

-------------
Think of it like picking skills for your Stadium.

neoliminal · Post by **neoliminal** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:39 pm

I appreciate the input from everyone. I'll look at the lush turf and astrogranite to see about things other than blocks. I don't like the idea of adding them to fouls, for example, as your already on the ground. GFI's and fail dodges should probably be included as they represent falling over.

Maybe that's the way to phrase it, modifiers for falling over.

Toby: I understand your desire for home stadiums, but these rules aren't for that. There are plenty of rules on the net for that, so you shouldn't be unhappy.

I'd like to hear what you think of these rules, however, knowing that they aren't about home stadiums but are rather a post NAF rule.

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:32 pm

Neo,

Certainly there is something there which demands a closer look!

On a quick look,

Strong Winds

Not sure that Strong Winds can easily change direction! Suggest that a prevailing wind is selected (roll d8). Then once the normal Kick Off scatter is made (ie the ball can go out of bounds before the wind catches it - this would be a touch back!), an additional roll is made using the throw in template - a 3 to 4 in the Prevailing direction - and roll a d6 for distance.

Astrogranite

I agree with Lucien - anyone falling should be subject to the +1. However, I don't think the +1 should change a KO to a casualty - when did the turf ever kill a player?

Lush Turf

All methods of falling down should be at -1 except that a cas is not made a KO from blocking.

Mega Tron

Too much of an affect. Suggest d3 players and on a 4+ they can play with each Assistant Coach giving a +1 - a 1 is always a failure (the ACs are yelling at the players to play the game!).

Bad Facilities

I think these tend to make players not want to play too.... so players with niggles are out on a 1 and 2.

Good Officials

If they are good they should spot non Eye fouls on a 5+.

Balance

One overall point. There are some effects which benefit Dwarves or Elves or Goblins etc. Not checked this but I feel it is important that this is balanced out over all races. So each race should have a (roughly equivalent) plus and minus or no plusses and no minuses... not sure that the suggestion does this (not checked though)!

Weather

As for the weather effects, I certainly think this part of BB needs some thought. I mean Nice weather on a kick off becomes.... Nice weather (normally) and a Blizzard can suddenly become nice too! Having said that, I'm not sure that mixing in the weather with Stadia is the right way to go. Not sure what the answer is but I think that this is more of League Management add on rather than a single game effect - eg FIFA awarded the World Cup to South Korea and Japan - so its hot and humid..... Perhaps if you have a League of 8 teams you could pick 8 locations and roll to see where each game is played (this means 4 locations are not used each round). Not sure this is the answer either but something to think about...

Wind Up Time

For one who has been campaigning for a quicker game, I'm surprised that you are putting up suggestions for making the game longer!

Dave

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:11 pm

PGFI does the same thing ... longer games.

Sorry John, I promise as penalty for this errant comment to review the rules and give you my feedback this week ... I downloaded them just now.

Galak

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:17 pm

I think its to many possibilities.
The nice thing about the weather table is, you can remember it.
There should be a handful stadium types so you know what to expect.

neoliminal · Post by **neoliminal** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:22 pm

Toby wrote:I think its to many possibilities.
The nice thing about the weather table is, you can remember it.
There should be a handful stadium types so you know what to expect.

Interesting point, what would you cut if it was up to you?

John -

neoliminal · Post by **neoliminal** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:25 pm

For one who has been campaigning for a quicker game, I'm surprised that you are putting up suggestions for making the game longer!

PGFI does the same thing ... longer games.

I'm affraid I don't agree with either count. At most either rule would increase the game perhaps a minute. PGFI in particular should make the game shorter, because the it will most likely result in an early turnover.