Random Physical Traits (Mutations)

[McDeth]

One turn scorers however do exist, so how are you going to ban them, in fact the kicking rules favour these players even more.
the only way to stop 1 turn scorers is either to increase the length of the pitch or curb their movement. ( somehow that i think is not going to happen ) Same with TTM.

Also remember anyone who relies entirely on a one turn scorer, which all Wood Elf and Skaven teams will try to produce at their utmost, will fall foul eventually of overreliance on that skill. Eventually they are going to fail, their leap, dodge, GFi, catch rolls to get the 1 turn score, or their thrower is going to fail a pick up, or you roll the Blitz. in which case the One turn scorer will have set up on the first line inside the half.

If i was playing against a one turn scorer my option would be to take him out at the first opportunity that presented itself. ( Isn't that what Dirty Players are for ) in fact i would take obscene pleasure in removing him from play.

Suddenlly when the coach finds himself needeing another tactic to score, sometimes they find their team suddenly is deficient in that area. Unless of course up pops another 1 Turn scorer suddenly pops up from the reserves.

[DoubleSkulls]

Wood Elf Catcher, 3 Star Player Rolls:

10 2 4 7 Catch, Dodge, Sprint, Leap

This Player can not be defended. All you can do is hope for the opposing coach to run out of the team rerolls he might need for the leap, and or the scorer to fall over on a go for it.

Once the Guy reaches Level 4 and sure feet, the game of playing Blood Bowl is obsolete.

For this player to score you need to
1) Pickup the ball
2) Pass the ball
3) Catch the ball
4) At least 1 dodge and a leap or 3 dodges (two of which are into TZs).
5) 3 GFI's

Assuming a best possible 8 rolls, each requiring 2+ (3+ for leap) you have only a 19% chance of pulling it off with no rerolls. If you had rerolls for everything (SHands, Pass, no tacklers, and TRR's) then the odds jump to 73% (presumes you can reroll the leap and all the GFI's).

If you know you league contains a player like this, or Skaven/WE coaches who are going to develop them you best defences are in lots of tackle, diving tackle and pass block (he has to start on the LoS so you can interfere with the catch and force a block or dodge). Most of these skills are generally useful too, so will help any defence.

Given the effort that had gone into developing the player and the fact they will be targetted by everyone else in the league I don't feel this is broken.

Ian

[neoliminal]

One turn scorers however do exist, so how are you going to ban them, in fact the kicking rules favour these players even more.
the only way to stop 1 turn scorers is either to increase the length of the pitch or curb their movement. ( somehow that i think is not going to happen )

That's not the only way...

The last decent idea I heard:

One Turn Scores:

Scoring in one turn requires incredible speed. It's so fast, in fact, that most referee's aren't capable of following the action! If a player scores on the same turn they recieved a kick-off, there's a good chance the ref wont be in position to award the touchdown. Roll a d6. On a 6, the ref awards the TD as normal, otherwise the opposing player is allowed to take a single blitz action! If the player is still in possession of the ball and still standing in the endzone after the blitz action is competed, then the TD stands.

[Zy-Nox]

If the roll was less then it could work, but a 6. Its a chance but not enough.
Another option. Beat the team up so much,force the one turner onto the pitch and then skin him

[GalakStarscraper]

Simple solution, ban one turn TD scorers and make the kicking rules official,this way everybody can score in 1 turn but I feel AG sides still have an advantage on these stakes,( A move 9 catcher with Kick for instance )

Uhhhhhh .... okay are you really going to use doubles to give your catcher Kick?

Having watched the kicking rules being played ... this is a pretty good recipe to lose games ... you 1 turn score 2 points .. about gets 7 turns to crunch your AV 7 players into the dirt and score a TD for 3 points.

Next half ... its your 6 players vs his 11 and odds are you are going to lose.

Not making this up this is pretty much how the kicking rules work ... that one turn possible kick score is a false illusion of victory ... you'd be better of to use the double roll to get a General Trait or ST skill (or physical if you are Skaven)

Galak

[Sputnik]

That tactic Galak pointed out works without kicking rules as well.

The one-turn-scorer starts off with his TD, then I kick his team where he deserves it for the reminder of the half . If this is enogh, fine, if not, since I get the ball, I do this for the second half as well. All which might happen is going for a draw if I don't succeed.

But since one-turn-scorers are hard to develop and those teams won't stand a fight for long, I don't see a reason to ban them.

And by the way: if I have seen right, the vll-mutation is still on the list.

Toby, if you don't like them, you could remove the mutation to make it at least a bit harder for the ratz to gain a one-tuner. Same chances for all speedies .

Sputnik

Sputnik

[Toby]

Stop Stop Stop.

One Turn Touchdowns are fine.

2 Things:

EVERY TEAM must have the POSSIBILITY to score in one Turn.
Scoring in one Turn must be a EXTREMELY LUCKY BASTARD.

The argument i have is you, as opposing coach, can only sit there and watch your opponent roll his dice, and that plain sucks.

Neo's Extra Blitz Idea is superb i think.

[Sputnik]

But how will dwarfs get a one-turner then??

I think some teams should stay slow...

Sputnik

[Toby]

just an quick idea: halfling little ones for the dwarfes (like 4 goblins for the orcs), Ogre Big Guy, throw Team Mate.

[lawquoter]

Having followed the thread, I'll join in with my 2 cents. I don't think 1 turn scorers are a scourge of the game. Toby is right when he says that it just plain sucks to watch your opponent giggle as his scoring machine ruins your best laid plans, but I think that is just part of the game. I tend to play strength teams (orcs and dwarves), and I realized right off the bat there would be no way I am going to ever develop a 1 turn scoring dwarf. But, I accept this and gladley take the AV9, Block, and Thickskull, which the Woodies and Skaven lack. Now if a guy chose Woodies or Skaven, he'll take the chance to develop speedsters who will likely get their heads handed to them if they dawdle around my longbeards. So what comes around goes around in a way: It's going to just plain suck for him to watch that wardancer's existence hang in the balance as I roll my dice and let out a manly warcry after my dwarf blitzer with mighty blow sends him to Valhalla. I don't think it would help the game to let every team have the chance to develop 1 turn scorers. If I don't like the one in my league, well, you know, there are ways of kill....I mean, "handling" him. [/i]

[Toby]

I dont mean everybody should have such a guy; What i meant to say everybody should be able to score in one turn; Once in a million Games

Remember the progressive go for its ? or throw team mate or hail marry pass or something; just the 1:99 chance to score in the dieing seconds of the game.

[neoliminal]

What do people mean by "...it's part of the game."

This is not the first time I've this phrase used to defend One Turn Scorers, but I can't for the life of me understand what's meant by it. It doesn't mean that the game was designed to have something in it... because Jervis tried to keep One Turn Scorers off the pitch from the start.

So please explain what you mean by this.

[sean newboy]

I think they mean its tradition now neo. Like the uber dirty player foulers, may not have been intended but its there now. Having an unused 1ts on a skaven team i played 5 games with, i certainly at the time did not see 1ts'ers as against the rules (why should i, he became number 6 or so in the league). On the other hand our league had no broken dirty players.

[lawquoter]

What I mean by "it's part of the game" is that with player development designed the way it is currently, it is possible to take the rookie war dancer and develop him, through a series of games or tournaments, into a positional player who has the ability to put a crooked number up on the score board in 1 turn. I believe this is one of the qualities of the designed team that more or less attracts players to selecting Woodies (or Skaven) as the club they'll run. Just as it is "part of the game" that I can develop my dwarves into rock solid bashers, who'd better be able to keep the score low against the Woodies (particularly by bashing), and then use ball control to try to beat the score he will likely put up on me. I know, as the dwarf coach, I can never develop a runner who can zip down 3/4s of the pitch in 1 turn for a shocking score. It's just not in the dwarf makeup, as the team was designed. But if I'm the Wood Elf coach, I know it's imperitive for me to only allow my opponent 1 hit per turn, using the blitz. Make him chase me, which of course, he can't do. Then it comes down to strategy, and a bit of luck. If I'm the dwarf coach who gets torched b/c of faulty positioning, or just dumb poor luck (part and parcel of any game using dice), I can grumble or let loose frustration in some manner, but this was the risk I chose to take by playing dwarves. Just as it is the risk, inherent in the game, that half or 3/4s of my Wood Elf starters will come away with serious injuries, or never play the game again. Every team currently designed has strengths and weaknesses, and I don't know if I would ever be partial to a rule that would allow me, as a dwarf coach (for example), the opportunity to develop a player, such as a 1 turn scorer, because I had already decided in forfeiting the opportunity to do so, in favor of some other particular strength of the club. The same goes for wood elves, I accept I can never be in a low scoring brawl with a strength team, but in exchange, I am given the opportunity to score quickly (which itself carries risks). I just wonder if allowing a slow moving dwarf team a chance, even if its 1 in a billion, the opportunity to put a score up in 1 turn, inordinately upsets the amount of risk/benefit balance. Of course, this is one man's opinion, and I would be interested in how others see it.

[wesleytj]

I have defended 1 turn scorers for years based on the fact that you could always use a card or wizard to stop them. And if you didn't have them then tough that was your own fault...if you're playing a team with a 1 turn scorer, then you should either be developed enough to have defenses against them, or get enough of a handicap that you got some kind of card to stop them. Then when you did you would foul the CRAP out of them for trying it. It was all more or less in the balance of things.

NOW, however, wizards are freeboot only and there are no cards. So where's the balance now?

Don't get me wrong, I like the new wiz rules. And I like the new handicap table. However, this does create a 1 turn scorer problem.

What I'd suggest is this: Bring back (some of) the cards, but NOT as part of the handicap system. Each player simply gets a single card before every game.

To be honest, I kind of miss the randomness brought about by the cards. It was always kinda nerve-wracking when you walked into the endzone. Do I score? Now you know. It also makes you a little more confident at times. Should I wait and score on the last turn of the half? What if the player has a card? And so on.

At the same time, I understand that it was no fun when you got 1 lousy card and your opponent got 5 great ones. Made the game unwinnable before you even started. But one card wouldn't do that.

Tell me what you think.