No hiring a star player in BBRC 2K1

[Fenryll]

What do you think about this ???

For some teams it is obligatory to have a champion.
For example: Chaos, Undead or goblins.
So i don't understand this rule. I find it stupid !!!

[Toby]

It is, but the 3rd Edition Starplayers & Rules were inbalanced.

Try this...

1. Find a Rookie for each Star and compare them.
2. Add 0-2 Rookie Blockers to the Human Team List
3. Increase Mighty Zug's Movement +1
4. Remove all Magic Helmets (Armour +1) from the Starplayers.
5. Recreate the Stars from the Rookies.
5. Add Racial Characteristics to the Star Players. (Change Thick Skull to Racial Caracteristic)

Griff Oberwald
Human Rookie Blitzer 7338 Block 90.000 General Strength
Human Legend Blitzer 8448 Block, Dodge, Leap, Sprint, Sure Feet 180.000 General, Strength

Mighty Zug
Human Rookie Blocker 5428 None 80.000 General, Strength
Human Star Player Blocker 5528 Block, Mighty Blow 120.000 General, Strength

Varagh Ghoulchewer
Orc Rookie Blitzer -> Orc Super Star Blitzer
(No access to the "Jump up" Agility Trait. Change to "Stand Firm" Strength Trait)

Count Luthor:
(Undead Wight Blitzer -> Undead Vampire Blitzer)
Change Hypnotic Gaze from "Racial Characteristic" to "Secret Weapon"

The new "Balanced Star Players" are not peaked.
They collect SPP but start with the amount of SPP required for their Title.
Star Players use a Player Position Slot.

(You can hire only one Star Player for your Team) //
(You can hire only one Star Player for each Player Position on your Team Roster)


I am really into this and will email it to Andy Hall as soon as its "presentable". I am not sure about some details.

[Thadrin]

It is NOT a stupid rule. The only reason the available stars are unbalanced is because some teams can choose from a whole load of grest ones, where as others can only pick the likes of Prince Moron. That is the main reason they are not allowed in leagues. The other is that they are generally regarded as cheesy things to have in your line up. You want a champion on your team? Develop one then.

Stars are special players who don't necessarily fit into the stereotypes of normal players - hence Zug, hence Varag having Jump up, and hence Griff being the result of a half dozen doubles rolls. Thats my view anyway, and the reason why I simply can't be bothered with all the stuff Toby talks about above. If you want to use stars Toby's rules seem to make some sense, but only as house rules. Lets not forget the golden rule: f you want something, house rule it. Don't expect it in Tournaments though.

[Toby]

Thandrin !
Hello !

Why on EARTH not simply taking 3 Skills away from Griff Oberwald, Retiering Griff to the Blood Bowl Hall of Fame and change the Guy to "Unnamed Human Star Player Blitzer".

The Guy then has a FIXED set of skills, and costs way to much.

The concept behind is you BUY Star Player Points. BUT you cant choose the skills yourself.

Simply making Star Players DISAPEAR (why should i waste 90.000 to play ONE game with a overpowerd SCORER that only takes SPP away from my Catchers ?) is so foolish. Its eliminating something cool. Stars were COOL. Stars were something to play and save Money for in 3rd Edition.

The whol LRB is full of OVER-FIXING Bugs and Flaws. 4 Morgs on a Human Team ? Unbalanced. Change it to 1 Ogre that cant use Team Re-Rolls and is "Bone Headed" constantly wasting the crucial Blitz Action.

Sorry. Balance is not inverting the unbalance. :O

[Thadrin]

Simply making Star Players DISAPEAR (why should i waste 90.000 to play ONE game with a overpowerd SCORER that only takes SPP away from my Catchers ?) is so foolish.

Very true IMO, BUT it also goes in with their concept: Griff Oberwald and Zug play for the Reikland Reavers...not the Gumbo Swamp Mudbirds or the Hotown Carousers or whoever. They will however play occasional games for those teams, because they pay well!

Its eliminating something cool. Stars were COOL. Stars were something to play and save Money for in 3rd Edition.

Here's where you and I disagree. I can't stand star players. I don't think they are cool at all. I'd much rather spend my team's money on stuff like Stadiums and so on. ON the other hand, money being so reduced these days its doubtful there'll be veteran teams with that sort of cash lying around anymore

If you want to use stars in your league thats fine, and your system seems to be fine for its intention. That said, its not something I ever want to see back in the official rules. This is the glory of Blood Bowl. You and your mates want to use it? fine. Its your house rule for the game the way you want to play it. Please just accept that a large number of the rest of us don't want to play that way.

[Furelli]

Toby,

1st his name is Thadrin.
2nd star players are really cool, and I agree that they are over-priced BUT there is nothing better than developing a player from the start to be the player you want not some pre-packaged scorer.

Furelli.

[Thadrin]

1st his name is Thadrin.

I was going to let that one slide....
for anyone interested or curious, my handle is the name of my team's coach. I seem to remember thinking it sounded reasonably dwarfish.

One codicil to my diatribe on stars: they CAN be cool....in a one off game.
I only use my Grim model (Rainbow hairdo and all) as a Score marker these days though. I might consider using him instead of one of my Slayer models if I ever get one up to 5 skills or so though.

[Fenryll]

I am agree with the fact that some teams have bad champions like Moranion .......

But ....
I think plaing with champion is great. because for some teams it is really hard to play without them.

For example: I have two teams: Humans and Undead.
For my humans, when i start a league, i buy Zug. If I cannot buy it, it is not really important because i can buy an Ogre or play without it

For my Undeaed, i buy Drakenborg. If I cannot buy it, i will go on the beach and i swim. Why ???
Because BBRC2k1 Duck the Undead. No vampire and Regeneration on a 4+.
I understand Regeneration on a 4+ but playing without a vampire is really too hard. Try to build a good offence play without it .

But it's just my point of view and i understand yours Thadrin

[voyagers_uk]

I have to say that I won the local league with Undead when we first switched over to the new rules. I didn't have a vampire just 2 Mummies and 2 wights, I bought the 2 extar wights asap as they give the undead a bit more offensive muscle, once you have block and one of either tackle/guard on a couple of skeletons or zombies you have a pretty solid front line and can then play the cage with the best of them.

If you want a more offensive undead line up, get your league to allow you to use the Khemri team from the MBBL2 rules as they rock.

[voyagers_uk]

And I also hate Stars , one of our players won a tournament locally and was awarded a lot of cash for it which he then used to hire Starplayers for 1 game at a time at the expense of his own team players.

He has now run out of money and doesn't have anywhere near a full roster. I look forward to stomping him now for all the times he fielded Zug,Griff and Morg amongst others.

For some reason he doesn't want to play that team now, can't think why!

I would suggest house ruling that if your opponent wants to use a star you get to roll a dice and on a 4+ you have got to his agent and bad mouthed their facilities so much that the star will not set-foot there although he will take their money.

[Thadrin]

I think plaing with champion is great. because for some teams it is really hard to play without them.

No it isn't. Not if you teach yourself to play without relying on these guys.

For my Undeaed, i buy Drakenborg. If I cannot buy it, i will go on the beach and i swim. Why ???
Because BBRC2k1 Muck the Undead. No vampire and Regeneration on a 4+.
I understand Regeneration on a 4+ but playing without a vampire is really too hard. Try to build a good offence play without it .

Ummm....You're wrong. Marcus took a "straight out of the box" style undead team and won the Amsterdam tournament by a clear twenty points, posting three 4-0 wins. How? he knew how to use the team to his advantage. Without the Vampire.
There were two Undead teams and two Human teams at the Amsterdam Tournament. The two Undead teams finished first and joing second respectively. The two human teams had top 6 placings.

Sorry to be blunt, but you're just plain wrong if you think you NEED those stars.
(BTW - apparently Undead are due for a shake up in BB Mag3, out in a couple of weeks. Maybe you'll thik again once you read those rules.)

[Fenryll]

ok i want to believe you, thadrin !!!

but i am probably a big newbie but i don't see how to play my undead without it.

first it is hard to take the ballon on the ground without it

[Toby]

The Question is WHY some dislike Stars.
-> Because they are not Balanced.

So secondly no Team should be designed that it absolutely NEEDS Stars to succeed.

Stars must be one OPTION.

If you like to waste one of the 4 Human Blitzer Slots on a Scorer, ok.
It costs you a possible Guard or Strip Ball or Shadowing Blitzer.

50% like stars, 50% don't.
So include them in a way that nobody is FORCED to use them., but may use them if they like the Stars. I will never ever play a Human Team without Griff. Griff is da Man. His mere presence is a INSPIRATION for the team. And if you make him MA 1 ST 1 AG 1 he will still be THE STAR OF THE HUMAN TEAM. Remove freaking Beckham from football or Forsberg from Hockey or Jordan from Basketball. B O R I N G.

Ah its things that are so logigcall and rational to me it makes me mad.

[Deathwing]

Take Sure hands on a Wight or Ghoul early.
IMO Undead with a Luthor are way overpowered, he pretty much eliminates most of the drawbacks of playing Undead.
And why he was ever allowed on a Human team is completely beyond me!

[Deathwing]

50% like stars, 50% don't.

What on earth are you basing that assumption on?