Blitz/Pass?

[Grumbledook]

it makes perfect sense, you know that player is going to at least attempt to pass, he might not make the dodges but then no one else on the team is going to be passing either, so its perfectly reasonable to declair he will be passing.

Its the same for a blitz on a ball carrier, you might have to make the 3 dodges, seven square, and two gfis in this instance as well, but you can't decide he is going to move and then block if he gets there.

I don't see how it doesn't make sense if you plan on him passing the ball, if he fails the move on the way he goes over so its a turnover anyway. Making him move and then passing your way he still might fall over on the move, still a turnover, so whats your problem with this?

[Holy G]

It's not the same for a Blitz, because a blitz begins immediately the player starts to move, a pass begins when "after he has completed his move he may throw the football"

Also failing a dodge will not necessarily mean a turn-over he may have stand firm..although it is unlikely since it's a trait, making people declare pass before starting his move is just a clever way to stop someone passing after running seven squares and making two dodges...

Ie. "you didn't say pass seven squares and two dodges away so you cant do it!!!! ner ner ner !!!" ...that is my problem with your thinking all to often its simply to stop gameplay...due to rules nit picking....give a man a break..."After he has completed his normal move he may throw the ball"

that's it simply.

[dakkakhan]

I hate to use reality for a moment to possibly clear this up, but here goes:

In high school football, when the quarterback looked like he was going to throw the ball (ie he didn't hand it off or run upfield himself) the Defense would yell "pass!" to indicate to all the defensive players that the play looked as though it was a pass play. This in no way meant that the quarterback actually got off the throw, simply that he was involved in a pass action. Deathwing, I believe that was your meaning.

With that in mind, the actual throw has to fail for it to be a turnover, correct? Simply declaring a Pass Action and then the turnover requirement, the ball does not end up in the hands of the throwing team... technically I suppose it did end up there since it never left.

Also, once you get out the range ruler you must throw the ball, correct? Sheesh, I'm going back to my Chaos Dwarves.

[Holy G]

Sorry mate you lost me.... Im' English and don't ever watch American footbal...it's rugger of soccer... !!

[longfang]

Clearly from your other posts on rules queries you arn't "clued up" on the rules! Maybe it's the nature of your league to try and "dick" each other but if you can't accept the knowledge of experienced players with a lot of rules knowledge then there's no helping you. However, your free to play it your way, just don't complain when you male chicken up big time and lose games at tournaments because your playing it wrong. Your loss, our gain.

[Holy G]

Thanks for your comment, unduly rude I may add, Clearly I must bow to the knowledge of the Wodell league, and thank you for putting me straight.

Does anybody see what I was saying ? knock knock

[Darkson]

Holy G, never, ever say logically in a rules discussion/arguement. It's a game and the rules don't follow logic, they follow game mechanics, else how do ou explain rolling for interceptions before you roll to see if the pass is fumbled?

[Holy G]

Point taken....I must be too darn logical..

[Deathwing]

I hate to use reality for a moment to possibly clear this up, but here goes:

In high school football, when the quarterback looked like he was going to throw the ball (ie he didn't hand it off or run upfield himself) the Defense would yell "pass!" to indicate to all the defensive players that the play looked as though it was a pass play. This in no way meant that the quarterback actually got off the throw, simply that he was involved in a pass action. Deathwing, I believe that was your meaning.

Lost me there dakka. What I meant is precisely this:
You must declare which action a player is going to take before carrying out that action.
The actions are Move, Block, Blitz, Pass, Hand-Off and Foul.
If you declare a Move action then you cannot do any of the above other than a Move action. After you declare which action a player will take then that player cannot perform any action other than the one you declared.
Those are the rules. That is the way it works.

[Holy G]

Does that mean if I declare a passing action that I must pass ? or may I choose not to ?

[dakkakhan]

Deathwing, I' m on your side, perhaps especially for none Amercian Football watchers it was a bad example.

I was simply differentiating between taking a "pass Action" and actually throwing the ball. If you intend to throw the ball with the player you are moving you declare that he is using up the one allowed "pass action" for your turn.

This being said the rules for a Pass resulting in a turnover does not point to taking a "pass action", but rather that if you decide to actually throw the ball, ie

"The ball is passed and not caught by a player from the moving team."

Everyone, let's take it down a notch.

[Deathwing]

Hey dakka, just trying to get things crystal clear, wasn't intending anything else.
Holy G: There's conflicting texts here, p8 says 'must', p13 says 'may'.
I'm not certain by any means, but my gut instinct is 'must'. Rather than extrapolate my reasoning, I'll let Chet or somebody answer this one. Suggest you stick a post up in Rules Queries, and see if somebody can clear it up.

[Darkson]

We played "may", just to keep things simple. We reasoned that seeing it wasn't a turnover if you didn't have the ball to pass at the end of your move (ie failed dodge but had stand firm) then you didn't have to pass if you did get it.

However, we're a rookie league so it's probably wrong.

[Grumbledook]

I always thought it was may pass. If you didn't declair a pass action he can't pass it, if you did declare a pass action you can pass if you want to after moving, should you want to.

This seems only fair becuse you might not want to pass should the circumstances not pan out how you thought. Like you started without the ball and declared he is going to pass but fails the pick up or something, though that would be a turnover anyway.

Only proper example should be that you dodged from a tz but had to use a reroll, now the pass you wanted to attempt you think you would rather wait because you can't use another reroll.

[Holy G]

Thanks deathwing....thread now moved to Rules Queries..