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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 3:35 am 
Legend
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lunchmoney wrote:


Collected minis from the teams I would ever conceivably play... Check!
Unique roll up, doormat quality field in 29mm... Check!
Icepelt, LRB6 Rulebook... Check!
Friends to play with.... Check!

Not giving a rat's furry arse what greedy w@nkers produces next... DOUBLE CHECK!!!!

:roll: sheeple :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:38 am 
Star Player
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Digger Goreman wrote:
lunchmoney wrote:


Collected minis from the teams I would ever conceivably play... Check!
Unique roll up, doormat quality field in 29mm... Check!
Icepelt, LRB6 Rulebook... Check!
Friends to play with.... Check!

Not giving a rat's furry arse what greedy w@nkers produces next... DOUBLE CHECK!!!!

:roll: sheeple :roll:


Do you ever have anything positive to say? I swear every time I see a post from you it has negativity all over it.

I honestly wonder what enjoyment you derive from Blood Bowl because you don't like the creator of it, you don't like the organisation that helps to organise tournaments and you don't seem to like what most people post here on TFF. So why play if everything just makes you sad or angry?

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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 12:02 pm 
Legend
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GW bringing back Blood Bowl is great news for the community as it will get a huge amount of attention for the game and has the potential to bring in a lot of new blood.
TFF, the NAF and FUMBBL would all struggle to ever get that kind of attention from your average or former gamers. I've seen loads of people on the cyanide forum state that they'd been into gaming back in the day and seeing BB1 or 2 had got them interested again.

It looks like GW are making a positive step for a change and it is certainly a chance for leagues and tournaments to grow and independent manufacturers to gain some new customers.

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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 4:28 pm 
Legend
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Olaf the Stout wrote:
I honestly wonder....


Perhaps, Olaf, but I don't think so .... Seems to easy to marginalize me and ignore details .... Like painting your miniatures with a single color, wide brush, stroke.... Doesn't work for miniatures either ....

Since I'm in an analogy mood...

Granny Wendy is like an abusive parent .... To maintain her sense of control, she beat and bludgeoned this community viciously .... Now she offers us a toy .... But the circle of abuse is unbroken ....

This is the core of the discontent, enablers included (i.e., the naf, et al.) The discontent is not the problem, the core is ..... Blaming the child is too easy ....

Since you've ignored my linked manifesto, I must remind you that my love is for the game and the BBRC process....

Another analogy: Behavior is like paving a road .... If you've left nothing but potholes and burned out bridges in your wake, then people expect the same .... As I tell the youth I work with, if you want people to believe in a better road, you have to pave that better road until they no longer remember the rough ride .... GW has nuked the highway system ... not I ....

Milo just posted some rivetting reading about the history of Blood Bowl in the Taking Back Blood Bowl thread .... I would support a reconstitution of the old BBRC (even with its biases)....

Granny is out of the picture till she completes therapy and paves that better road ....

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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 6:44 pm 
Super Star
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Digger Goreman wrote:
Olaf the Stout wrote:
I honestly wonder....


Perhaps, Olaf, but I don't think so .... Seems to easy to marginalize me and ignore details .... Like painting your miniatures with a single color, wide brush, stroke.... Doesn't work for miniatures either ....

Well, it was a snarky comment from Olaf, but on the flip side, your post could be construed as raining on someone else's parade. If it doesn't matter to you, then there's really no need to post, right?

Digger Goreman wrote:
Since I'm in an analogy mood...

Granny Wendy is like an abusive parent .... To maintain her sense of control, she beat and bludgeoned this community viciously .... Now she offers us a toy .... But the circle of abuse is unbroken ....

...

Another analogy: Behavior is like paving a road .... If you've left nothing but potholes and burned out bridges in your wake, then people expect the same .... As I tell the youth I work with, if you want people to believe in a better road, you have to pave that better road until they no longer remember the rough ride .... GW has nuked the highway system ... not I ....


Well, really, Games Workshop is like a capitalist company who has a vested interest in maintaining rights to the true intellectual property they've created and in ultimately turning a profit, for the purpose of enriching both their employees and stockholders. In this, they are really no better or worse than most publicly traded companies. Part of the negative feelings towards them are I think fueled by the fact that GW originally was very unlike their current state. They were a company founded by geeks who wanted to make cool miniatures and play games with them. This earned them a rabid fanship who were understandably disappointed when GW became more of a corporate entity.

While I disagree with a lot of their decisions -- and how! -- I ultimately cannot say that GW isn't acting within their rights (most of the time) and in the interests of their shareholders. I liked it better the old way, but change is inevitable, and the financial conditions that allowed them to succeed as a small company made no longer exist. (That refers to both the fact that their game/mini designers have grown older and are no longer willing to work for shoestring budgets, and the fact that changing prices of petroleum and legal issues with lead miniatures may result in higher operating costs.) I don't know any of that for sure, but none of what I'm suggesting is unheard of or illogical.

I think the beancounters and lawyers have taken GW in the wrong direction, personally -- I think they were better off when they were actively engaging with their fanbases and crosspromoting their products via the Specialist line. But of course I do, I was one of the fans who got the benefit of working with them the most.

Revoking permission for the NAF to use the block dice designs seems pointless -- they've redesigned the dice now anyways -- as it just gets them bad press for no real value. Send your legal guys out to make sure that websites using Blood Bowl have to cite it properly and provide links back to GW, that sounds reasonable. But why wouldn't you want an active and motivated fan base spreading your trademarks around, as it's just good and free advertising? It doesn't make sense to me. Far from maximizing their profits, I think some of this heavy handedness has actually cost them money in the long run.

Had they not been so GOOD before, they wouldn't seem so BAD now. In a way, they're victims of their own success.

But within GW, there are still GOOD people with GOOD ideas. I'm hopeful that Forgeworld bringing back the Specialist Games is a sign that someone sees the value in them and will make some wiser decisions in the future.

Digger Goreman wrote:
Milo just posted some rivetting reading about the history of Blood Bowl in the Taking Back Blood Bowl thread .... I would support a reconstitution of the old BBRC (even with its biases)....

Granny is out of the picture till she completes therapy and paves that better road ....


Really? I was expecting people to just write that drivel off. Glad you liked it, at least.

Now, I've read your screed. I don't agree with a lot of it, but I respect your opinions. I think it's impossible to make a game like Blood Bowl PERFECTLY balanced, and pointless to try. There are too many variables. Even in Chess there are a limited number of possibilities -- the pieces always start in the same locations, are identical on both sides in terms of movement and offensive capabilities, and each turn consists of a SINGLE action. But Blood Bowl isn't like that. There are an almost infinite number of possibilities, from dice rolls to free-form movement and initial setup at kickoff. Then you throw in separate variables like length of season, player progression, etc. It can't be done.

Even if you use the metric of win percentage, some teams are more likely to win in short term leagues and others are more likely to win in longer term leagues. The starting skills influence that heavily, as does the cost of the players. If every position for every race was 6338 for 50k, then yes, it could be balanced. Short of that, you have to just shoot for the best you can, which I assure you IS what the BBRC attempted to do. (With the exception of the fact that some teams, notably stunty teams, were not required to meet the same general power level as the others, because the fluff acknowledges that they are more challenged.)

I think it's pretty close now. Sure, there are some rock/paper/scissors elements to that balance, and a few teams which aren't as good as others, but I think the NAF results show that most races have the ability to be competitive in the hands of a good coach. I'm sorry you don't like playing against some styles of teams, but that doesn't mean there's something wrong with it. I don't LIKE it when someone fouls one of my players every turn, but that's their right within the rules and I don't take issue with it.

Regarding your feelings to GW, I understand where you are coming from. I got some letters from GW legal when I ran bloodbowl.net. I've heard some of what the NAF and Tom has gone through with them. They have burned a lot of bridges. I don't want to say there are BAD people at GW, but I do think there are people who see their IP and trademarks as dollar figures and don't understand the value of a GAME company maintaining positive relations with the PEOPLE who play those games. But I also know, from my personal experiences with them, that there are some good people there too who still love the games and the players who play them.

So I'm generally willing to keep an open mind to this new Specialist Games division of Forgeworld. For one thing, Forgeworld has ALWAYS catered to the niche markets and the hardcore gamers and collectors. They have become a profitable division of GW by creating all sorts of unique figures for their mainstream games, specifically aiming for Space Marine chapters/Eldar craftworlds/etc. that fall outside the commonplace. In that regard, I feel like they have a better finger on the pulse of their most motivated gamers than the core GW does.

Put me down for cautiously optimistic.

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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 7:08 pm 
Emerging Star
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He's "Digger Goreman". He has a Manifesto and is recruiting for the Blood Bowl Zombie Nation - what not to like? 8)

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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 7:40 pm 
Super Star
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Milo wrote:
Put me down for cautiously optimistic.

That's exactly how I'm feeling, two pieces of good news (Rules are unchanged, Figures are "apparently" 28mm to the eye) and one neutral (field looks nice but probably won't fit on my table). The past couple days have greatly increased my chances of buying the set.

Bakunin wrote:
He's "Digger Goreman". He has a Manifesto ...

Anyone pushing their "Manifesto" on the internet is to be considered face-eatingly crazy until proven otherwise. Just one of a few rules which have served me well so far. Right up there with "Don't trust anyone who can't explain what they do for a living".

(Disclaimer: I'm sure Digger's a perfectly nice guy when he's not talking about Elves or the NAF) :)

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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 8:31 pm 
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From the moment some beancounter stopped the Specialist Games division having their own small-run casting machine it should have been moved to Forge World.

It might be 5+ years late, but I'm not willing to completely write off hope yet, FW seem like good chaps, even if you think GW is an evil entity.
Plus, selfishly, if BB does well it makes re-released of Necromunda and Mordheim more likely.

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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 12:09 am 
Star Player
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Darkson wrote:
Plus, selfishly, if BB does well it makes re-released of Necromunda and Mordheim more likely.


we can certainly hope so...

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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 5:24 am 
Star Player
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Digger Goreman wrote:
Olaf the Stout wrote:
I honestly wonder....


Perhaps, Olaf, but I don't think so .... Seems to easy to marginalize me and ignore details .... Like painting your miniatures with a single color, wide brush, stroke.... Doesn't work for miniatures either ....

Since I'm in an analogy mood...

Granny Wendy is like an abusive parent .... To maintain her sense of control, she beat and bludgeoned this community viciously .... Now she offers us a toy .... But the circle of abuse is unbroken ....

This is the core of the discontent, enablers included (i.e., the naf, et al.) The discontent is not the problem, the core is ..... Blaming the child is too easy ....

Since you've ignored my linked manifesto, I must remind you that my love is for the game and the BBRC process....

Another analogy: Behavior is like paving a road .... If you've left nothing but potholes and burned out bridges in your wake, then people expect the same .... As I tell the youth I work with, if you want people to believe in a better road, you have to pave that better road until they no longer remember the rough ride .... GW has nuked the highway system ... not I ....

Milo just posted some rivetting reading about the history of Blood Bowl in the Taking Back Blood Bowl thread .... I would support a reconstitution of the old BBRC (even with its biases)....

Granny is out of the picture till she completes therapy and paves that better road ....


Ok, I've read your "manifesto". Basically, to me, it reads like "I have a narrow list of things I do like in Blood Bowl. Anything outside of those things is just wrong."

That may not be how you intended it to come across, but that's how it reads to me. So I think it's probably for the best if I skip over your posts in future as your viewpoint hasn't seemed to have changed (at least in the period that I noticed your posts). :/

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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 12:52 pm 
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Please don't feed the Troll.

That is: don't get into any discussion with Digger Goreman, don't bother responding to his posts, just ignore him.


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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:06 am 
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I am just saddened that another opportunity to fix the dwarf roster has been missed. Sad that there are only 20 teams +3 the unsanctioned 3 +Khorne in bloodbowl :(

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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 11:51 am 
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Heff wrote:
I am just saddened that another opportunity to fix the dwarf roster has been missed


Heff - When you say "fix" why does it sound an awful lot to me like "delete"? :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 1:00 pm 
Dwarf fetishist
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dfunkateer wrote:
Heff wrote:
I am just saddened that another opportunity to fix the dwarf roster has been missed


Heff - When you say "fix" why does it sound an awful lot to me like "delete"? :lol: :lol:

You say tomato I say
Broken boring powergaming beardy twats :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted
 Post Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 1:02 pm 
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Heff wrote:
dfunkateer wrote:
Heff wrote:
I am just saddened that another opportunity to fix the dwarf roster has been missed


Heff - When you say "fix" why does it sound an awful lot to me like "delete"? :lol: :lol:

You say tomato I say
Broken boring powergaming beardy twats :lol:


Im with you, but can we please fix woodelfs too?

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