Close up pic of a painted new Orc Thrower

[Madsherman]

I guess it`s supposed to be black, but something blueish, like Haweye Turquoise is mixed in to harmonize bettere with the skintone. 101 painting tricks.

But....I do not see that to be of too much importance. Everyone paints the toys according to their taste I guess.

Yeah, I'm seeing it as a faded/washed out black as well

[SunDevil]

I've been very vocal on 3DB regarding my fears about GW up-sizing BB minis to fit into their 40K/AoS world. Galak's info only cements those fears.

We have played BB for 10+ years without GW. They could make brilliant new miniatures in the scale currently enjoyed and everyone would love it. Imagine new Chaos Pact or Slann or Underworld teams from GW! They would sell thousands of those teams. Everyone wins.

Instead, they will try to force everyone to stop playing with the 28mm minis we love (including vintage GW minis) and all get on board with brand new 30-32 mm teams. They don't understand that they can join the existing BB movement and make truckloads of $$$. They only see a way to bulldoze the environment and force everyone to buy into this 40K/AoS scale.

Then when it fails because people don't throw away their minis and buy into the bigger scale, GW can say, "See? We tried and BB players didn't buy enough." Just a wasted opportunity.

I desperately hope I am wrong.

[DinoTitanedition]

Your hopes have been heared SunDevil! Most third party fantasy football producers produce miniatures in 30/32mm scale for quite a while already! GW actually just scales to the (un)common community seize...

Sorry if this spread of sarcasm, but really...there is no illogical reason for NOT scaling up the miniatures.

- the community already went this way years ago
- more options of mixing miniatures of various sprues
- better level of detail on bigger minis
- seperating themselves from other non-fantasy football companys
- the game overall becomes visually better recognizable with a larger scale, drags more awarness of new customers to the shelf and therefore generates more new coaches in the overall community

Sigh....really man....I can understand, that there is something like a personal meaning....but please try going at this with some rational thinking as well.

[rolo]

SunDevil is not being irrational. Most 3rd party manufacturers (and all that I've bought) are 28mm; Just to name a few off the top of my head, Black Scorpion, Meiko, Shadowforge, Uscarl, Iron Golems, Greebo ... all 28mm.
Not to mention the still-popular GW Blood Bowl 2nd and 3rd edition models.

Just about anyone who has been playing Blood Bowl for a while has made a significant investment in 28mm models. Not to mention Blood Bowl fields, carrying cases, dugouts, display boards, skill rings, equipment ... and so on, and so on.

Heck, my gaming table at home is the exact width of the Blood Bowl field length. Larger minis would mean a larger field, which means it won't fit on my table.

In many cases, people's Blood Bowl collections represent 20 years or more of collecting, modelling, painting, building custom stadiums, and so on. Making that all obsolete is not going to make people happy.

[DinoTitanedition]

I`ve joined the game back with the release of the 3rd edition and truth is, that there was differences in scale already. I absolutely admit, at the beginning I was an all-out-28mm supporter as well, but a scale up would not change the game itself.

Actually, I believe it gives it deepens the inmersive feel of the game. When fast players move over the field, it actually would look like running, not like jogging a couple o` more steps. The cale up also makes it easier to paint the models beautiful. One more thing is, that differences in scale are not unnatural "in nature". So if one skeleton is bigger than the other, it just means it were two differently big people why they were alive and so on. I guess you get the point.

A larger scale of miniatures and especially of the field itself would not make old miniatures obsolete. My gaming table....well.....let`s just say it`s kind of gigantic, I do not have a space problem, but I get that tabletop clubs usually have smaller tables, since they are cheaper to afford. Bigger miniatures would bringer squaresizes too. Wouldn`t it be nice if bases would not had to be atop of each other and you would know exactly in what field the downed opponent is lying?

Maybe it`s just me, but I do not see any negative effects of a scale up. Willy and Meiko had larger scales for quite a while now, as far as I know.

[rolo]

My issues personally:

On a standard Blood Bowl pitch, the squares are 29mm square - a perfect fit for the 25mm round base which every 28mm figure is sold with. A "knocked down" figure is easily placed within a square, and there is no potential disagreement as to which square that is.

32mm figures are generally shipped with 30mm bases. It's not a huge deal, but they are slightly larger than the squares they're being placed on, and as you bring up, it can be an issue when many figures are standing next to each other, a common situation in Blood Bowl.

Subjectively, mixing scales of miniatures can be irritating. A good example is when 32mm "st3" elves are larger than my 3rd ed "st4" Chaos Warriors. There's no in-game effect but it detracts from what you call the "immersive feel of the game".

And the 80cm field length isn't just a price issue - it's a very common standard size for tables. Not just in game clubs but in pubs, restaurants, beer gardens, everywhere we play. "Oh but you can just turn the field sideways". Subjectively I don't like that, objectively it means less people can play in the same space.

I use Feldherr foam trays to carry my teams. The 16-slot trays are absolutely perfect for transporting teams ... but the slots are 25mm wide. You can wedge a figure with a 30mm base into those slots ... but it stretches out the foam and it doesn't really fit, and makes the neighboring slots smaller. So you also can't put all 30mm bases next to each other.

I actually use three fields - a standard Blood Bowl field, a league field from FF-Fields, and the World Cup commemorative field. But some players have custom-built stadiums. Those are a lot of work, and most look immensely impressive and are instantly the center of attention wherever they're used. And all will be a bit too small if the model size is arbitrarily increased.

I'm also worried that making 32mm standard will lead to further scale creep. "Big Guys" need to be obviously larger than "normal" figures, but most existing big guys are about 30-35mm tall. Today's Ogres will look like normal Humans, so why not sell larger Ogres? Which maybe use a 40mm base, but who cares, right? Bigger is better! Until GW gets into the mindset that square size is just something to change with every new edition.

So there are some very real disadvantages for players of changing the scale of the game:
- Larger fields won't fit on standard size tables
- Larger models won't fit as easily on current fields
- Larger models won't fit as easily in current carrying cases
- Scale creep

And not much advantage that I can see for me, as a player.

[DinoTitanedition]

Valid points, even though I believe, the scale creep has already happened, if I look at, for example the dwarves from Iron Golems, or the ogres from....I don`t know what company that was. They`re pretty new from...Vigil or something like that. The plastic ranges from GW, wich I use mainly to convert orc teams, has also shown to grow sizewise, so the slotsize problem in carrying cases also isn`t exactly "new". By the way I also use Feldherr stuff. The seperating piece of two slots is only glued on, so you can bent it sideways pretty easy. That`s how I carry my own ogres. Anyway, the new models will go the same way as the other minis on the fantasy football market.

The size of strength 4+ players I understand. Mummies were always placed on a 25mm base instead of 35mm like other ST5 players. Hm....come to speak of, that problem doesen`t seem to be new as well, but I get the point. What kind of warriors are you using? I recently started to base my players after their strength value - 25mm for 3 or lower, 32mm for 4, 35mm for 5+.

About tables, I was not aware, that there is something like a standard size. Most of my games are played at home



or at various gaming clubs. But they usually use two smaller tables or a wooden plate laid across two tables, as the regular tables were already tiny.

[Darkson]

If the pitches and/or models are much bigger I won't use them. The pitches wouldn't fit on our tables at our club (regular tables were the legs fold up that many places have) unless we halved numbers (we can get two boards per table now)and played sideways (urrgh). If the models are to big then I'll just not buy them. I already tend not to buy Willy figures due to the ridiculous sizes so not an issue for me to miss out on others.

[rolo]

I'm talking about the standard GW Chaos Warriors:


Ironically, I didn't know that there were any standard sizes for tables either, or even consider that a standard size existed ... until I started taking my Blood Bowl field on the road and noticing how many tables fit it perfectly

[Darkson]

Here's what I mean on issues with the pitch getting larger:



If the pitch is even slightly larger (i.e. 29mm to 35mm squares) the tables we use at this venue (our regular) and the other venue (we used once a year) will no longer safely fit two boards, as I wouldn't feel safe with an extra 7cm overhang. Only way round it will be to turn the boards sideways (Fumbbl style), which would mean we'd have to halve our maximum attendance. Many (though by no means all) the venues I've been to for various tournaments will/would have had the same issue.

[mikeyc222]

I believe, the scale creep has already happened, if I look at, for example the dwarves from Iron Golems

Got to disagree there... I have the Iron Golems dwarf tean, and they look right at home next to my 3rd edition GW dwarves.
Yes, there are a few indie companies who make larger scale minis, but there are just as many that keep pretty darn close to the classic 28mm scale. For now, those companies that don't give in to the scale creep are the ones that will continue to get my money.

[Stout Youngblood]

...those companies that don't give in to the scale creep are the ones that will continue to get my money.

I agree with you. I prefer the smaller figures even if I use them on a larger scale board. Although, I have purchased Willy's Tomb Guardians for my Khemri team because of their larger size. I consider Tomb Guardians to be sort of Animated Statues and Undead Mummies to be animated Humans.

[GalakStarscraper]

@DinoTitanedition

At Gen Con, Chaos Cup, Zlurpee ... most of the US tournaments ... a bigger board will NOT fit on the tables. So a bigger board would definitely NOT be a welcome change to the game. Have to disagree with you Dino. taller minis ... okay ... but the current manufacturers still have their non-Big Guys fit on 25mm bases. If the normal figures need to fit on 30mm bases ... that is scale creep ABOVE Willy and Meiko.

You are arguing that it is matching scale ... no it is not. I sell Willy models ... they come with 25mm bases NOT 30mm bases. If the new GW figures need 30mm bases to fit the standard models that is scale creep even over Willy. Just not welcome at all ... IMO.

And this has nothing to do with being a mini supplier. I can adapt. Heck for $400 I could turn any of my newest made team into a scale that matched GW's new scale ... the beauty of models being 3-D STL files. So it is really a non-threat to me business-wise. I am speaking as a gamer who knows how the boards fit on gaming tables at tournaments and a bigger board would NOT be welcome IMO.

[mikeyc222]

as a side note, i think that thrower mini that started this entire thread can easily fit on a 25mm base. from the pic, it looks like near 2/3 of the base is open gravel and static grass, and the mini itself looks like it is placed on near the edge of the base. i still think the mini looks larger than 28mm, but i'm not sure why it's on such a gigantic base.
maybe i'm wrong, though

[Steam Ball]

the current manufacturers still have their non-Big Guys fit on 25mm bases. If the normal figures need to fit on 30mm bases ... that is scale creep ABOVE Willy and Meiko.

You are arguing that it is matching scale ... no it is not. I sell Willy models ... they come with 25mm bases NOT 30mm bases. If the new GW figures need 30mm bases to fit the standard models that is scale creep even over Willy. Just not welcome at all ... IMO.

Unless GW creates yet another base, it will be 32mm. That is what they are using in other ranges. In any case, bigger than 29mm of current squares.

Yes, I read somewhere someone was told 30. Also keep hearing GW has 40 mm bases, that when measured are not. So excuse me if I apply "GW probably rounds" method, because it seems to be the norm.

as a side note, i think that thrower mini that started this entire thread can easily fit on a 25mm base. from the pic, it looks like near 2/3 of the base is open gravel and static grass, and the mini itself looks like it is placed on near the edge of the base. i still think the mini looks larger than 28mm, but i'm not sure why it's on such a gigantic base.
maybe i'm wrong, though

But ...




not always. With these models part of the feet would be in the air, like big guys now. I could do a crude image editing to show 25mm bases assuming those are 32.