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 Post subject: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:40 am 
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I've been out of the Blood Bowl community for a while, and it's pretty upsetting to see how Games Workshop has treated Jervis, the BBRC, and all the fans of Blood Bowl.

Has there been any talk of taking back Blood Bowl? By this I mean removing any and all hold Games Workshop has on the game. This could be done by re-writing the rule book (keeping the same rules, but changing all of the wording that's not strictly necessary for rules interpretation), creating new images, and ending the use of all words and phrases trademarked by Games Workshop. Because the rules of a game cannot be copyrighted, and because no Games Workshop trademarks would be used, and because rewriting the rules would change the game's "look and feel", the fans would be free to control the game again.

We'd have to change the name of the game (Blood Bowl is trademarked by GW), but the game would be ours again. We could restart the BBRC and bring back the Living Rulebook. We would no longer be under constant legal threat by GW.

What I'm wondering is this: is the Blood Bowl community brave enough to take this leap and take back control of their game? Or are we content with being slaves to the corporate masters at GW?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:32 am 
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Are we brave enough? Yes, we sure are!
Are we untied enough, that is the better question.

In my opinion, you'll need something official to make the rules and the game all over the world the same.
I shudder in fear when I think of all those house rule ideas, CRP+ changes and who knows what else lurks out there in the shadows...

Who should be in the new BBRC? Who would you trust to stay true to the game?
The original BBRC was no problem, they've been appointed and have therefore been official rule makes.
But how do you get that done with a community based ruleset?
To be fairly honest, I'd stick with the CRP, no matter what.

Great idea, we shouldn't stop having dreams.
But to make it happen, I think we're to diverse a community for that.
For some, BB is a fun game and should stay like that.
For some, BB should get more competitive.
For some, who knows what they want?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:46 am 
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Xenomech wrote:
is the Blood Bowl community brave enough to take this leap and take back control of their game?

In my experience the answer is "no". There isn't enough blood in this community to generate even one decent erection much less to engage in that sort of undertaking.

The NAF is terrified of making anybody unhappy and acts like the abandoned-but-hopeful-of-reconciliation ex-girlfriend of GW, and generally won't take a stand on any issue beyond "maybe everyone is right and its ok to do it any way you want so long as you buy a NAF membership...."

The former BBRC members don't much care to get involved.. they're all focused on their own divergent paths.

The players generally don't agree on basically anything, so there's no chance they'll come together as a community to do anything. If someone else does all the work and takes all the risk they'll maybe take a look and then offer detached criticism before going back to doing the same thing they were doing before.

Xenomech wrote:
Or are we content with being slaves to the corporate masters at GW?

Content or not, that's what we are.

The only thing that all of BB will abide by is an official GW release, even if it's stupid. To a lesser extent they'll follow along with what secondary providers churn out, like Cyanide and FUMBBL (if FUMBBL was any less bloodless than the NAF). Unless you're willing to put in the huge amount of work it takes to be at least a secondary provider of Blood Bowl, there is zero chance of accomplishing anything...

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 Post subject: Re: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:36 am 
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Quote:
content with being slaves to the corporate masters at GW


I'd say most people are content to be in this category, that is why GW are so successful and why they make lots money :lol:

But then again look what happened to Warhammer Fantasy, have a look at The 9th Age website, its proven to be a success i think. But it would take something drastic for this to happen...

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 Post subject: Re: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:20 pm 
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Honestly I just don't agree with the GW hate and I don't think that makes me a "corporate slave"- I think we need to chill out on that a little bit and be sensible.

I could not pay GW another penny for the rest of my life and still play blood bowl. I could attend strictly only fan operated tournaments and purchase 3rd party "fantasy football" products.

I could ignore the new release and play whatever version of the game I wanted.

I buy GW models because I like the quality and I support GW's ownership of the game because they're the channel through which it is going to gain more worldwide popularity. If another company purchased the rules, the IP, everything about the game from GW I would then support them... because they own it and I love the game.

However that said many third party companies have produced "fantasy football" games and products which may be perfectly marvelous but are unlikely to ever rival blood bowl's level of exposure and popularity. We could take the rules, remove the IP, call Skaven "rat men", Dwarfs "Drombledoons" and Orcs "Snokleflinks" and share the rules for free (which we totally don't do already :| ) but who's going to promote the game? Like it or not Blood Bowl's links to GW's other products encourages new players to try it out.

GW have a new CEO who seems to have some good ideas, we are finally getting the Blood Bowl release we've been waiting for, this is a weird time to be crying revolution again.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:29 pm 
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Xenomech wrote:

What I'm wondering is this: is the Blood Bowl community brave enough to take this leap and take back control of their game? Or are we content with being slaves to the corporate masters at GW?


Good question.

In my opinion CRP+ is LRB7 (and without a doubt more fun than LRB6)
But as to what you propose, the only possibility I see is to democratize the NAF. But I dont see that happening, since the vocal part of the BB community is so Conservativ they make Mussolini look like a Syndicalist again :puke:

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 Post subject: Re: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:58 pm 
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I`ll got a this bit by bit, since my thaughts just pop up, while reading a post. So I think an answer in pieces is how this is answered best.

Quote:
and all the fans of Blood Bowl.


What bad did it do to the fans of BB? I am a long time fan of it and honestly, I see many of the community doing more harm to the game than the original producer itself. GW has, by releasing this game, given people a community, a thriving tournament scene by not inteferring (even though I am not a fan of any overly competitive event), new teams via digital release from Cyanide Games and for many third party producers a basis to make their business and live of it.

I actually want to return this as a question - after all this time of hatred and negativity reflecting towards GW, they are even rereleasing the game again. What reason should the owner. of. their. own. product. have to be supportive towards the community?

Most activity of the community, no, let`s rephrase that, the most VISUAL activity of "the community" (define that please) is how to harm the people that made this game.

Quote:
By this I mean removing any and all hold Games Workshop has on the game. This could be done by re-writing the rule book (keeping the same rules, but changing all of the wording that's not strictly necessary for rules interpretation), creating new images, and ending the use of all words and phrases trademarked by Games Workshop. Because the rules of a game cannot be copyrighted, and because no Games Workshop trademarks would be used, and because rewriting the rules would change the game's "look and feel", the fans would be free to control the game again.


But would this still be Blood Bowl? It is a persiflage to the old Warhammer setting and American Football as a sport. Don`t get me wrong, I don`t want to dampen your motivation, but this is simply taking everything out of what actually MAKES Blood Bowl...

It`s not just about the rules. The setting, the fluff, the Warhammer races....all that IS Blood Bowl.

Quote:
but the game would be ours again


It never was.

Quote:
We would no longer be under constant legal threat by GW.


You are not, as long as you do not produce any products with any GW trademarks. If I remember correctly, there is plenty of games on the market doing just that, many trying to substitute Blood Bowl. But this brings me back to the above statement - they are not Blood Bowl and I believe people start playing Blood Bowl because of the unique factors included in this game.

I had a demogame just on Sunday and recruited a new player. He knew a little bit of the Warhammer fluff and is an active American Football player. It was almost to easy to get him to play and I believe it was for the named reasons.

Quote:
is the Blood Bowl community brave enough to take this leap and take back control of their game? Or are we content with being slaves to the corporate masters at GW?


OR is "the community" finally brave enough to be open for change, accepting that they actually want to play Blood Bowl (I mean otherwise the rulebook could`ve been changed loooong time ago with different names and races and....you ARE open to do it) not anything else and just go on to play the want? Or is it actually fear, that some people secretly know there is MANY people who want to play BLOOD BOWL and not something else and would with a drastic step like that, simply shift into a rather small community? Being mostly unified in dissatisfaction about the original producer of this game?


Now, don`t take any of this personal, I have no intent of hitting any nerves, but since you are obviously asking for a meaning and a call to action, I just threw in my two cents.

Personally I am eager to see the new release of Blood Bowl and emprace it. There won`t be too many rulechanges, since an active digital game is allready on the market, not through with it`s DLCs yet and constantly drawing new players to the game I love.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:02 pm 
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Bakunin wrote:
democratize the NAF.



Err, what?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:09 pm 
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VoodooMike wrote:
The former BBRC members don't much care to get involved.. they're all focused on their own divergent paths.
I know I should not bite on this one but ... huh? What more do you want me to do VM? I show up regularly and answer questions. I've repeatedly cut time out of my schedule and profits to help BB events. I've assisted GW with rule advice even after the treatment I got at the end of the CRP process. So not sure what your idea of involved is?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:34 pm 
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The tone of the OP makes it sound like it was written 3-4 years ago, and has sat in the draft folder since then. :-?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:39 pm 
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PFFFAAHAHAHA......Darkson.... :D Shit, that WAS funny :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:55 pm 
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sann0638 wrote:
Bakunin wrote:
democratize the NAF.



Err, what?


Go on, Mike! You got the majority of our votes for presidential election in order to democratize the NAF! Didn't you know?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:53 pm 
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Yeah! Blood Bowl is super-popular, despite being out of print as a tabletop game; the rules are probably the best we've seen; and GW is re-releasing a new version that may give us new models and allow new players an easy way to get into the game!

I ask you, fellow slaves: what are we gonna do about it?!

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 Post subject: Re: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:55 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Taking Back Blood Bowl
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:17 pm 
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Bakunin wrote:
In my opinion CRP+ is LRB7 (and without a doubt more fun than LRB6)

In my opinion it most certainly is not. And therein lies at least part of the problem: lack of consensus.


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