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 Post subject: Re: Re-Drafting at season end
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:40 pm 
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Milo wrote:
For instance, last year my league had nine teams and played a 16-game double-round-robin season. At the end of the season, the averages for the league were as follows: Avg. 25 TD 30 CAS 2,026 TV

We are eight games into our current season Cas range from 3-33 and TD from 2-21.
No team is at the top of both but combined Cas+TD range from 6 to 42. The top teams will be getting 200k more to carry over players than those at the bottom.

Milo wrote:
Given the DZ1 formula, teams on average would get 1,000,000 gold + 160,000 (for games) + 125,000 (for TDs) + 150,000 (for CAS) for a total of 1,435,000 gold. Not counting FF, which carries over, we'd be looking at a cap of about 1450 TV, which EVERY team in the league would have to cut in order to get under -- between 225,000 and 915,000 worth. (Note that these values are approximate, because we were using BB3-style TR instead of TV.)
You forgot Treasury Gold which will add ~200k more for teams to play with. Also the Season Winner gets 100k boost and second and third also receive extra cash.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Drafting at season end
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:55 pm 
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Lyracian wrote:
Milo wrote:
For instance, last year my league had nine teams and played a 16-game double-round-robin season. At the end of the season, the averages for the league were as follows: Avg. 25 TD 30 CAS 2,026 TV

We are eight games into our current season Cas range from 3-33 and TD from 2-21.
No team is at the top of both but combined Cas+TD range from 6 to 42. The top teams will be getting 200k more to carry over players than those at the bottom.


That's not far off from our results, given that we played twice as many games as you are now.

Lyracian wrote:
Milo wrote:
Given the DZ1 formula, teams on average would get 1,000,000 gold + 160,000 (for games) + 125,000 (for TDs) + 150,000 (for CAS) for a total of 1,435,000 gold. Not counting FF, which carries over, we'd be looking at a cap of about 1450 TV, which EVERY team in the league would have to cut in order to get under -- between 225,000 and 915,000 worth. (Note that these values are approximate, because we were using BB3-style TR instead of TV.)
You forgot Treasury Gold which will add ~200k more for teams to play with. Also the Season Winner gets 100k boost and second and third also receive extra cash.


Yes, that's good to note. We didn't have playoffs or any major prizes in our league so those didn't factor in, but I should definitely include those in the spreadsheet. (Note that the teams who participate in the playoffs also get extra money from playing the additional games.)

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 Post subject: Re: Re-Drafting at season end
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:35 pm 
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Milo wrote:
So like I said, I like the IDEA but feel like Commissioners should feel free to play with the values to suit their own purposes.
I think you're right, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect most teams to have to cut somewhere. I think the target season start TV would be dependent on the target season end TV and the number of games to be played. Entirely commissioner's discretion, ofc.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Drafting at season end
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:48 am 
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dode74 wrote:
Milo wrote:
So like I said, I like the IDEA but feel like Commissioners should feel free to play with the values to suit their own purposes.
I think you're right, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect most teams to have to cut somewhere. I think the target season start TV would be dependent on the target season end TV and the number of games to be played. Entirely commissioner's discretion, ofc.


No, I don't either. I think that it's a good idea to reduce the gap between the top and bottom teams, and I'm okay also if that means the bottom teams get a little boost by having some extra money in seasons 2+. It's just to avoid the gap growing too much over the course of multiple seasons. Also, by setting a redraft level higher, you could have new teams receive an average amount (or equal to the lowest team, depending on your desires) and keep them relatively balanced with ongoing teams.

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 Post subject: Re: Re-Drafting at season end
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:12 am 
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I mean, in the bigger picture the US sports league system has both caps and a draft to make the system work.

If it's all about money = winning = bigger budget, then you get a system that inherently promotes making the best teams spiral off into awesomeness...not sure I'm a huge fan.

I'd like it a lot better if there was incentives both ways like in the US system. Seems more appreciative as well (of the guys who put up with losing for a season or two just in order to - try and - compete).


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Drafting at season end
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:06 pm 
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nivlaps wrote:
I mean, in the bigger picture the US sports league system has both caps and a draft to make the system work.

If it's all about money = winning = bigger budget, then you get a system that inherently promotes making the best teams spiral off into awesomeness...not sure I'm a huge fan.

I'd like it a lot better if there was incentives both ways like in the US system. Seems more appreciative as well (of the guys who put up with losing for a season or two just in order to - try and - compete).


Well, there have been lots of "draft" ideas proposed in the past, whereby the worst teams could get a boost from having some pre-skilled talented players join them.

But I think it's also worth considering the fact that Blood Bowl is really a Fantasy Football Role-Playing Game. People want to see development from their teams, not JUST enjoy the thrill of evenly balanced chess matches. (They have tournaments for that.)

Also, I think having the winning teams get better at a faster rate than the losing teams does incentivize winning to some extent, so I wouldn't want to see it go away altogether. But definitely, there should be some periodic rebalancing to bring the two ends of the bell curve closer to the middle.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:20 pm 
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I like the idea that new seasons means new teams aren't too far behind, and I also like the idea of having the difficult decision of which players to keep and which to let go to keep in your budget.

A really crazy idea would be allowing new clubs to buy the players the returning clubs didn't re draft, so for example an orc team has 2 blodging MB blitzers and can't afford to keep both, the coach keeps one and puts the other up for sale. New coach buys him and pays full TV cost, the selling coach gets 50% of that cost back.

I'm not sure on the logistics of doing it but it's a good way to boost the income of teams by training up decent players and selling them on.

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 Post subject: Re:
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:24 am 
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TomB wrote:
A really crazy idea would be allowing new clubs to buy the players the returning clubs didn't re draft, so for example an orc team has 2 blodging MB blitzers and can't afford to keep both, the coach keeps one and puts the other up for sale. New coach buys him and pays full TV cost, the selling coach gets 50% of that cost back.

I had a similar idea, but I absolutely fail to see the point of compensating the former team; why not just create a free agents list and have teams sign players from there? (And here the real complication arrives: Who gets to sign a player if he's wanted by more than one club? Surely an auction style system won't do...roll off?!) :P


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Drafting at season end
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:55 am 
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Yeah, no compensation.
I think teams should place a 'blind' bid for that player. The league commissionar (sp?) then reads those and whoever had the highest bid, wins/gets the player.

Should make for a fun time. Maybe other teams can even lend players money, at a certain interest. :D

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 Post subject: Re:
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:12 am 
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TomB wrote:
A really crazy idea would be allowing new clubs to buy the players the returning clubs didn't re draft, so for example an orc team has 2 blodging MB blitzers and can't afford to keep both, the coach keeps one and puts the other up for sale. New coach buys him and pays full TV cost, the selling coach gets 50% of that cost back.

Presumably this is only open to teams of the same race?


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 Post subject: Re-Drafting at season end
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:14 pm 
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The idea of compensating the other team would be to make the decision of who to cut more difficult, so if your short on cash you might cut a decent player knowing he will be snapped up, rather than just cutting all the rubbish players and having a rubbish transfer list.

Same race? Maybe you could have certain alliance races work together, but then they either gain loner or animosity, and you are limited to the number of out of race players.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Drafting at season end
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:31 pm 
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JaM wrote:
Yeah, no compensation.
I think teams should place a 'blind' bid for that player. The league commissionar (sp?) then reads those and whoever had the highest bid, wins/gets the player.

Should make for a fun time. Maybe other teams can even lend players money, at a certain interest. :D

Blind bids is exactly what we did in OFL. The winning team also added the amount bid for the player to his TV to add a bit of brinkmanship.


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 Post subject: Re-Drafting at season end
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:54 am 
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Right idea, poor execution. It requires (and rewards) longer seasons, so instead of playing only 8 games and getting 1.3mil to spend, you're better off playing a longer season and getting closer to 1.5mil to re-buy.

I'm all for nerfing ridiculous 2mil+ teams, but not so much that there is no point continuing with them. Really only benefits teams that are good at lower TV such as dwarves.

It's making playing in my leagues less attractive and I never thought I would see the day :'(


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Drafting at season end
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:15 pm 
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From my experience, having designed a manager game, I'd never go with:

- Loans, let alone interest
- Allies

It complicates an already quite complicated system more than is necessary. Free agents is already a big ask of backend systems and of coaches.

I do think blind bidding is a good idea, as would carrying the cost over be (if it could be accommodated into the software systems we all use). It's all about keeping things sensible and reasonably easy to admin.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Drafting at season end
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:11 pm 
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nivlaps wrote:
I'd like it a lot better if there was incentives both ways like in the US system. Seems more appreciative as well (of the guys who put up with losing for a season or two just in order to - try and - compete).

The new league that is starting up near me has the same plan. Instead of the winning team getting an extra 100k the worst performing team gets 100k second worst 50k and so on. We have also added a system to mimic buying players from other teams where during the redraft you can just buy a one or two skilled player with 1 year career to join your team. Limit of two players max.


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