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 Post subject: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:53 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:58 pm 
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(Will try to find smaller pics tomorrow!)

My initial thoughts:

1. No Loner?
2. Plays for anyone?
3. Seem rather cheap.
4. Kick Team Mate doesn't seem to use the Pass action, so even if a kicked player scatters the wrong way they can still be thrown.
5. AG3 Ogre? With access to rerolls? yes please.
6. KTM is also less risky to try than TTM, as there's no chance of failure OR turnover on the Big Guys part, other than Bone Head.

As for the models, I have a set coming (so yes, I have put my money where my mouth is) but I think the 3rd party kicking ogre (Stay Player miniatures?) is better.


[Edit]
Someone else has pointed out that unlike Brick & Grotty it doesn't say they count as one "star" so at least you can't combine this with someone like Scrappa.

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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:08 pm 
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Darkson wrote:
(Will try to find smaller pics tomorrow!)

My initial thoughts:

1. No Loner?
2. Plays for anyone?
3. Seem rather cheap.
4. Kick Team Mate doesn't seem to use the Pass action, so even if a kicked player scatters the wrong way they can still be thrown.
5. AG3 Ogre? With access to rerolls? yes please.
6. KTM is also less risky to try than TTM, as there's no chance of failure OR turnover on the Big Guys part, other than Bone Head.

As for the models, I have a set coming (so yes, I have put my money where my mouth is) but I think the 3rd party kicking ogre (Stay Player miniatures?) is better.


[Edit]
Someone else has pointed out that unlike Brick & Grotty it doesn't say they count as one "star" so at least you can't combine this with someone like Scrappa.


Totally agree, seems a strange combination of skills/price/stats etc.

Errata?


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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:35 pm 
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Not very much good use of the ag3 ogre when he can't throw team mates. Sure, a dodge is possible but a break tackle ogre would be much better at that.


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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:49 pm 
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Kemimutt wrote:
Not very much good use of the ag3 ogre when he can't throw team mates. Sure, a dodge is possible but a break tackle ogre would be much better at that.


At AG3 he's a passable ball carrier though...


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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:02 pm 
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fromherashes wrote:
Kemimutt wrote:
Not very much good use of the ag3 ogre when he can't throw team mates. Sure, a dodge is possible but a break tackle ogre would be much better at that.


At AG3 he's a passable ball carrier though...

Sure, but thats not what you pay him to do and I dont think he will be doing that much.


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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:07 pm 
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Kemimutt wrote:
fromherashes wrote:
Kemimutt wrote:
Not very much good use of the ag3 ogre when he can't throw team mates. Sure, a dodge is possible but a break tackle ogre would be much better at that.


At AG3 he's a passable ball carrier though...

Sure, but thats not what you pay him to do and I dont think he will be doing that much.

I would in a tournament. good luck getting even 1 dice.

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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:11 pm 
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So no loner, so you can reroll the landing roll.

And no AG roll for the kick.

Seems way unbalanced if that ogre (pair) plays for any team.
Just silly.

But Some on facebook are talking about the duo is unofficial.

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Last edited by Bakunin on Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:50 am 
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I'm a little concerned about the number of special rules and limited edition models we are seeing from GW. The odd limited release can add some flavour, but when half the stuff that has come out has been limited and we only have 3 teams so far it is a bit ridiculous.

Worse is the number of special rules they have been adding, often just to fit some design choice by a sculptor. I remember some of the old days of WHFB & 40K where you'd have to bring multiple books and photocopies of white dwarf to cover all the special rules and rules queries to a tournament. The more rules they add the greater the complication and a lot of these just seem kind of pointless and have little impact in the game.

They could easily not have added weeping daggers and given the stars generic skills rather than slightly modifying catch/sure hands and TTM and then creating 2 new skills just for some star players.

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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:36 am 
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210k for an Ogre and Halfling (usually 150k) with an AG increase on the Ogre (now 190k) and a unique, possible OP, skill for the remaining 20k and no Loner?

Not broken at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:02 am 
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lunchmoney wrote:
210k for an Ogre and Halfling (usually 150k) with an AG increase on the Ogre (now 190k) and a unique, possible OP, skill for the remaining 20k and no Loner?

Not broken at all.


It is usually 170k (140+30), + AG on the ogre (210k), Sure Hands on the halfling (240k) and Kick Team Mate (which is extremely random but surely better than TTM especially if you have both on the team... let's say 40K?) total value... about 280 k value for 210k price... and NO LONER! :o
A lot better than any existing star players and I think better then most lineup players as well.

I can't think of a team that can't benefit of this 2 if you can squeeze them in.
Think of Khemri... you just got 2 ballcarriers that are better than any you have....
Ogres with 7 Ogres one of which is the balcarrier (the worst mistake you can make with ogres is carring the ball with a snotling IMHO).... With a secondary balcarrier with SH just in case....

If there was a 1250k tournament in Italy that allows these star players I think 90% of teams would have them... whatever the race.


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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:05 am 
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lunchmoney wrote:
210k for an Ogre and Halfling (usually 150k) with an AG increase on the Ogre (now 190k) and a unique, possible OP, skill for the remaining 20k and no Loner?

Not broken at all.

Yep, my maths was wrong as I started at 120 not 140.

And I'd missed the Sure Hands.

Still broken and will not be welcome at Exiles events.

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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:44 am 
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Maybe they're cheap so you can take Brick Farth 'n' Grotty (one Star slot) and Grak (one Star slot and depending on FAQ's probably Crumbleberry given that Brick and Grotty have one price and come as one choice) then you can kick an Ag4 Player.

Joking aside comparing this pair to Brick Farth 'n' Grotty is highlights some 'inconstancies'.

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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:51 am 
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Heff wrote:
Kemimutt wrote:
Sure, but thats not what you pay him to do and I dont think he will be doing that much.

I would in a tournament. good luck getting even 1 dice.


Likewise, he'd be an absolute bargain on an ogre team. Use the other ogres to hit and annoy the opposition with snots plus having two ball carriers that are better than the rest of the team.


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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:47 am 
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spubbbba wrote:
I'm a little concerned about the number of special rules and limited edition models we are seeing from GW. The odd limited release can add some flavour, but when half the stuff that has come out has been limited and we only have 3 teams so far it is a bit ridiculous.


Well, it's a small sample size. I understand that WHW has exclusive models for ALL of GW's games, not just Blood Bowl. (https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.c ... rchandise/) To the extent that GW is treating Blood Bowl like their other flagship games, I think it's a positive sign that there are exclusive BB minis as well.

I don't think the dice and board have been officially limited so much as limited stock was ordered (and some of the Skaven dice were rejected for QC reasons) and demand exceeded the supply greatly. Since BB is really a product of FW's new Specialist Games division, they had a limited budget and needed to be conservative with their initial ordering because they didn't have any recent sales data to base a larger order on. Several legitimate sources have stated that there will be more dice and boards ordered and that they will be back for sale later on, so I trust that to be true. Grak and Crumbleberry and the Forgeworld Referees are the first TRUE limited releases, in my mind, and the referees don't really have any impact in-game (in and of themselves -- I know there are optional rules in White Dwarf.)

spubbbba wrote:
Worse is the number of special rules they have been adding, often just to fit some design choice by a sculptor. I remember some of the old days of WHFB & 40K where you'd have to bring multiple books and photocopies of white dwarf to cover all the special rules and rules queries to a tournament. The more rules they add the greater the complication and a lot of these just seem kind of pointless and have little impact in the game.


I do think one of the goals of the current team is to produce a slightly more "fun" game of Blood Bowl, with some of the special rules that added crazy wild flavor to the game. I think that's great -- the humor and wackiness of Blood Bowl was what originally attracted me to it -- but they should be optional rules for the most part to maintain the tournament viability of the game. I personally would not allow G&C in any tournaments I ran. (One possible way to limit them is to cap the number of Star Players at 1 -- unlike Brick and Grotty, these are two separate stars who are purchased together, so under a limit of 1 star, they would not be legal.)

spubbbba wrote:
They could easily not have added weeping daggers and given the stars generic skills rather than slightly modifying catch/sure hands and TTM and then creating 2 new skills just for some star players.


Agreed. I can tell you that the team has heard this feedback and that there will be less of this in the future.

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