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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:27 pm 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
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Itchen Masack wrote:
Really? Ok then I'll allow him when we play next! :p


:-)

Easy fix. Add Loner and AG2. Done


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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:36 am 
Super Star
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Itchen Masack wrote:
Are these really all that OP or broken as I keep hearing? With the Kick Team-Mate, where does one aim? It scatters d6 squares, and flings move 5 squares. Aim too deep and he can easily go sailing off the pitch, aim too short and the little fling is left alone in enemy territory, unable to make the endzone in 1 go. If he lands.

Six squares away from touchdown, more or less centered. Bad luck (which happens 3/8) and the halfling lands near the LoS (yet in some cases, still a two turn score). Not so bad (and only 2/8 times), and goes to wide zones, requiring GFI or two turn score. Good luck (3/8 times) and he goes towards end zone, just small walk to score. And you can do that from anywhere in your half of the field, a well protected "cannon". Compare to TTM, even if just as a bluff, forcing the other team to spread all over.

Hafling player told me he was really "happy" about this skill. (That was sarcasm on his part, as he is not into OP)


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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:31 am 
Super Star
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Only a 2 turn score if the opponent is poor and has left zero defence vs a clear 1 or 2 turn threat, otherwise it's a halfling stood likely on it's own in enemy territory. All i see from these star players is an expensive potential to 1 turn from a deep kick. Ag3 ogre? If that is really what attracts coaches to this pair, then good luck to them.

Maybe allowing them would lead to coaches requiring a bit more of a think, and perhaps feel slightly uncomfortable, but I simply cannot see them as game breaking (especially if loner missing was a mistake).


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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:00 am 
Kommissar Enthusiasmoff
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It wasn't...

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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:33 am 
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Itchen Masack wrote:
Maybe allowing them would lead to coaches requiring a bit more of a think, and perhaps feel slightly uncomfortable, but I simply cannot see them as game breaking (especially if loner missing was a mistake).


I, and most of the people I've spoken to about them, don't think kick team-mate is game breaking. That isn't the issue. The problems are that they are under-costed and shouldn't be allowed to all teams (and they lack loner). 210k for two AG3 players on a Khemri team? Idiocy.

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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:46 am 
Da Spammer
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Moraiwe wrote:
I, and most of the people I've spoken to about them, don't think kick team-mate is game breaking. That isn't the issue. The problems are that they are under-costed and shouldn't be allowed to all teams (and they lack loner). 210k for two AG3 players on a Khemri team? Idiocy.

Yep - I think that's the overriding feeling in this thread to.

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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:36 pm 
Super Star
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Itchen Masack wrote:
Only a 2 turn score if the opponent is poor and has left zero defence vs a clear 1 or 2 turn threat, otherwise it's a halfling stood likely on it's own in enemy territory. All i see from these star players is an expensive potential to 1 turn from a deep kick. Ag3 ogre? If that is really what attracts coaches to this pair, then good luck to them.

Maybe allowing them would lead to coaches requiring a bit more of a think, and perhaps feel slightly uncomfortable, but I simply cannot see them as game breaking (especially if loner missing was a mistake).

The price (two players for 210? when the worse ones are 140+30?), the lack of loner (so you can use RR with the tactic... or with anything else), the bluff option (if they don't spread, you kick, if they do, you smash the weaker front), the team avaliability (anyone can kick now until the halfling can't come back to the pitch, stunties can kick at will)... yeah, "not" broken. (Sarcasm again)

Idiocy, as already said. Too many things combined.


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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:23 pm 
Rookie
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:56 pm
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sann0638 wrote:
It wasn't...

GW confirmed no loner is correct?


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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:10 am 
Star Player
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I 100% agreeing with the consensus on this thread, such as
Steam Ball:
Quote:
The price (two players for 210? when the worse ones are 140+30?), the lack of loner (so you can use RR with the tactic... or with anything else), the bluff option (if they don't spread, you kick, if they do, you smash the weaker front), the team avaliability (anyone can kick now until the halfling can't come back to the pitch, stunties can kick at will)...


Moriawe:
Quote:
I, and most of the people I've spoken to about them, don't think kick team-mate is game breaking. That isn't the issue. The problems are that they are under-costed and shouldn't be allowed to all teams (and they lack loner). 210k for two AG3 players on a Khemri team? Idiocy.


Darkson:
Quote:
Yep - I think that's the overriding feeling in this thread too.


and all the others.


Garyt asked:

Quote:
GW confirmed no loner is correct?


I flagged the issue with Andy Hoare, and was given a fairly terse reply:

Quote:
The rules for Grak and Crumbleberry are published as James intended them - they don't contain any typos and we're not going to publish an errata.


So there you go - that's official. Andy did go on to say that whether you allow Grak & Crumbleberry is completely up to Tournament Organisers and League Commish's.

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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:30 pm 
Da Spammer
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That... is sad and a little worrying.

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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:27 pm 
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Darkson wrote:
That... is sad and a little worrying.

Long as its not the distant sound of a knife being sharpened tokill the goose that lays the golden eggs

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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:19 am 
Super Star
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Facepalm? Too soft, better Roger Rabbit and the stack of plates.


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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:03 am 
Star Player
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From various discussions I've read it seems like James and Andy are really taking a "we know best" approach.

This star player, along with other changes they have made, worry me as I don't feel like they do know what's best (and I'm clearly not alone).

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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:08 pm
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I think that the Specialist team are making a few assumptions that aren't valid.

#1. You need to make them good for people to want to buy them, not play them.
#2. Relatively few players are going to buy these, and so there will be relatively few of them 'out in the wild'...
#3. GW still doesn't want to have the final say as to how you play your game.

While I don't think that they are in denial about the 3rd party producers or the availability of their rules on the internet, they have a different sensibility about rules. In many ways, they still want to primarily be a miniatures company.


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 Post subject: Re: Grak and Crumbleberry
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:17 pm 
Veteran
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:46 pm
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I can surely see why everyone is a bit frustrated with things like this, but in the end it doesn't really bother me because I feel confident that the player community will self-correct any problems that arise. I mean, the community pretty much ran the game for decades and some of our members are responsible for many improvements made to the rules during that time.

I'm just enjoying that the game is getting more attention, as well as new stuff to buy.


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