Grak and Crumbleberry

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digger
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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by digger »

I didn't think I had gone of topic I was explaining how as an inexperienced competitive player I maybe failing to see what others do regarding the little rules changes, and that I never saw claw piling on as a problem until I came up against it and that I don't see the Grak and Crumbleberry kick rules as a problem and maybe my mind would change if I came up against that. But yeah the topic had already gone off topic to weeping blade on page 1.

I got told the other week that a thread I started asking about scale of the new figures against all other manufacturers figures already had a topic. It didn't that was a thread specifically about 5th v 3rd edition . I then started a thread titled Grak and Crumbleberry where I posted a pic of Grak and Crumbleberry when I saw it on Twitter a few days later another thread called Grak and Crumbleberry appears in general chat and the last post on the thread I started is view other topic! The second thread was started by a moderator who had told me about me making a second thread for the miniature scales.
I give up, its starting feel like a closed shop i'll probably keep coming back to keep up with blood bowl news but as for posting I'll give it a miss thanks

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Heff
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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by Heff »

digger wrote:I didn't think I had gone of topic I was explaining how as an inexperienced competitive player I maybe failing to see what others do regarding the little rules changes, and that I never saw claw piling on as a problem until I came up against it and that I don't see the Grak and Crumbleberry kick rules as a problem and maybe my mind would change if I came up against that. But yeah the topic had already gone off topic to weeping blade on page 1.

I got told the other week that a thread I started asking about scale of the new figures against all other manufacturers figures already had a topic. It didn't that was a thread specifically about 5th v 3rd edition . I then started a thread titled Grak and Crumbleberry where I posted a pic of Grak and Crumbleberry when I saw it on Twitter a few days later another thread called Grak and Crumbleberry appears in general chat and the last post on the thread I started is view other topic! The second thread was started by a moderator who had told me about me making a second thread for the miniature scales.
I give up, its starting feel like a closed shop i'll probably keep coming back to keep up with blood bowl news but as for posting I'll give it a miss thanks
And that would e a shame. We went a bit off topic here so that is ok. Sometimes we get two very similar theads, one takes off one doesnt. sometimes we get a thread that suddenly blossoms. We are all passionate nerds who lack social skills communicating in a medium that can easily be misinterpreted. I think that we should give each other some slack. That being said posting in red is rude, you are not my dad or my teacher Darkson choose a more friendly colour.
And to keep it on thread
What about that Grak and Crumbleberry, bit off really doncha think.

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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by lunchmoney »

EastCoast wrote: Isn't it hysterically funny that this only happens when and only when a poster disagrees with you? I love how this wandering off topic didn't bother you in the least until a poster was all like "hey, I kind of like the new rule changes?" Suddenly now 7 pages after everybody had a good moan about not being LRB/Crp we're veering off topic? OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk. :roll:
Actually, I 'm pretty I mentioned the going off topic first.....

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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by Darkson »

digger wrote: I then started a thread titled Grak and Crumbleberry where I posted a pic of Grak and Crumbleberry when I saw it on Twitter a few days later another thread called Grak and Crumbleberry appears in general chat and the last post on the thread I started is view other topic! The second thread was started by a moderator who had told me about me making a second thread for the miniature scales.
I give up, its starting feel like a closed shop i'll probably keep coming back to keep up with blood bowl news but as for posting I'll give it a miss thanks
Your thread is about the models, and is in the models section. This thread is about the in-game rules. Different beasts - you wouldn't expect the rules discussion to happen in the model section. The post on the other thread (by Lunchmoney I believe) is because there were multiple posts on this thread talking about the models/multiple posts on your threads about the rules.

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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by CyberedElf »

I finished the thread, but still had a few responses not already put forward by others.
Milo wrote:But they can't fix mistakes made in the past (except via errata, which they've done).
Where is the errata for WE linemen cost? Oh, yeah. If you don't see the three dots under the downloads section you can't even find the already written errata. "Oh, but we don't want to make a change to the errata this week, and then again in two weeks." Why not? Errata V1.0, Errata V1.1, etc. Send a tweet when it gets updated. Solve problems, don't let them linger.
Edit 1/9/17 to add: Yeah! New errata and FAQ, and more visible! No mention of Grak and Crumbleberry.
Darkson wrote:Your thread is about the models, and is in the models section. This thread is about the in-game rules. Different beasts - you wouldn't expect the rules discussion to happen in the model section.
If the moderators are going to be that picky (and I don't care if they are), why isn't this in the rules section?

More on topic. . .
I get that mistakes happen, but the mistakes in this release have been out of hand.

Why would someone reading WD not think they could take Grak and Crumbleberry to a tournament?
1) They are OP, so it must be an error. BB2016 has chosen zany as a design parameter. These figures increase zaniness. People most often believe what they want to believe.
2) The organizer chose wording that excluded it. I have seen some poorly worded tournament descriptions. I know a tournament next weekend that has not mentioned inducements in the description at all. (You could also ask why the organizer would want to exclude these stars?)
3) Someone on TFF said they could not be used in tournaments. Not all BB players read TFF.

This is all less of a problem for those who have been around, but like so many cockups in this release, the problem is for those who do not know better. In fact, that might be why these things bother me so much.
Pardon me while I attempt to speak for the esprit de corps of the community. (Maybe I'm just being egotistical.) The community feels that the game has belonged to them. The community (be it online, league, and/or tournament) has kept this game alive. We feel responsible for it. The return of GW to the helm of the game has much potential to make the community greater. We are glad that GW has not taken actions that would dash the community apart. But because we feel we have had some responsibility for the game, these obvious mistakes are an embarrassment to us.
I'm not claiming that this is rational, just that it might help to explain why we are so upset about mistakes and perceived problems, that really will resolve in time.

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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by Babs »

What I want to say about this has pretty much been said already:
Milo wrote:
I just think all of the angst over it[weeping blades] is overblown.

Manuel replied:
It is not angst. It is just irritation, because it was completely unnecessary

Galak then penned:
I would have tried to do something to stop Weeping Blades, Monstrous Mouth, Piling On and Kick Team-Mate if I could have. Those skills suggest a direction that does concern me ... but overall I do have only high hopes from what I've heard from Andy and James.
Amen to Manuel and Galak. And I've stated as much directly to Andy Hoare.
I do think Milo is a great addition to the playtesting crew, as well as the 'other BBRC member' who is involved (and I'm pretty confident I know who that is too). I'm pleased to hear that Milo didn't even see Grak's stats before he was released - but does not surprise me - how else could such a poor combination made it to release? (I have complete faith in Milo and the 'other' to give clear recommendations)

Lastly, to Digger, please don't stop posting. If we all said the same thing, this would be a very boring place to be. Apologies if you feel insulted. I actually think overall the community has completely embraced the new edition and overall been very encouraging. The moaning about changes is pretty selective and in places where such moaning is well deserved. I don't hear much moaning about the new Referee rules, for example, nor the between season rules - just asking for clarity. Lastly, the only moaning about Guffle I hear about is that he just as well could have had Catch and/or Sure hands instead of a redundant new skill. So overall, we've been pretty damn positive given the turnaround we've had to make from being ignored for the best part of 15 years (and yes, I'm counting the years since 2001's re-release in store - the last time Blood Bowl was in stock in GW stores).

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digger
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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by digger »

I'm not offended just a bit miffed, that after pages of going off topic from everything about my post gets pulled up I'm not going to list them you they're there for everyone to read and after moaning about people moaning it feels like I'm moaning about people moaning moaning at what I was moaning about and its going further and further away from the Grak Crumbleberry stuff so if want to delete all the non Grak stuff go ahead and clean it up.

ok I understand if you want a discussion about rules outside the miniatures section fair enough and to be honest who's thread continues the Grak Crumbleberry stuff doesn't bother me it was probably a case of it came just after I'd been told about starting a second thread on a subject but you've explained so fair enough.

My honest opinion on the kick rules I'd have to see it in action to see if was overpowered I like the halfling mini not so much Grak think it's size of his head.

On the release of these two and other stuff I think people are getting fleeced on eBay because of way it's being handled I get they want an exclusive model to sell at warhammer world the fact its so early after release doesn't help seems a panic to buy everything thing in case it goes out of stock or is limited I kick myself for not buying the last griff and zig not because I want to sell them for £50 a time just I want them and don't to pay £50 each for them or £87 for Grak and Crumbleberry and so on.a bit more info on prices and availability surely would help but I'm veering again.

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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by stashman »

Cool minis, cool combo but add this:

Plays for any team except Khemri, Necromantic and Undead

Loner to both players

Add to Kick Team Mate
Roll a D6. On a roll of 1 the Right Stuff player is knocked over in the square it was standing in. Roll an armour roll as normal. If the player was holding the ball its a turn-over. Scatter the ball as normal.
On a 2+ the Right Stuff player is kicked.


Good fixing. Nothing is 100% anymore.

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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by Rolex »

stashman wrote:Cool minis, cool combo but add this:

Plays for any team except Khemri, Necromantic and Undead

Loner to both players

Add to Kick Team Mate
Roll a D6. On a roll of 1 the Right Stuff player is knocked over in the square it was standing in. Roll an armour roll as normal. If the player was holding the ball its a turn-over. Scatter the ball as normal.
On a 2+ the Right Stuff player is kicked.


Good fixing. Nothing is 100% anymore.
Good fixing if the price is 310k.
For 210k they would be still the best deal the game has to offer. Period.

Math is not an opinion.

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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by bound for glory »

Digger, Welcome brother!

Don't stop posting. This is a great place to come and talk about the best game granny ever put out, and most members are really good people.

Mean to say, I've been here a bunch of years, and lately I've been not coming here and posting, as I had a bit of a bug up my ass because I had words with a mod. and got banned for a week.

Got a bunch of PM's from my friends asking why I hav'nt been coming here. Good people telling me to come back.

Welcome! And to get back on topic...I think the rules for these 2 won't affect people like me and my club, as we just keep our leagues friendly(if thats possible). I certainly see it affecting tornement play.

I don't do tourneys.

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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by Heff »

My take on kick.

As for Kick team mate I think,
1 it should be KICK or PASS not both. passing needs a buff but this is not it
2 You should have to make a skill roll of some sort to get this off the ground Agility at +2 so will go on a 2+ seems ok. Less tackle zones
3 Tentacles should reduce the chance by a further 1 as the target is being cuddled
4 it should be range focussed so Long, or Long Bomb at an additional -1 to land.
5 scatter should be as per standard rules for TTM
6 there should be a roll to injure the poor stunty if you fail your kick roll.
And this is not to say that I like the rule, I do not. But my version at least addresses some of the broken-ness of it. As it stands you can stand on your touchline and punt a person to the opposing sweet spot, get a 6 forward and nail the landing and you auto score.

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Heff...Keeping the Dwarf (and lego) hate alive
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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by Deus Magi »

JT-Y wrote:Grak & Crumbleberry were done months ago, long before any external proofreading was established.
They are just cool models FW wants to be able to sell at events like Open Days, the rules are an afterthought really. They do have quite a bank of such models and every year some go away and new ones come along, for all the systems FW makes models for.

They aren't getting a general release, they aren't intended or even expected to appear in tournaments. The expectation is that they'll get the most use as an Ogre on a team and perhaps an alternative Puggy (which was what the sculptor made that model as, several years ago for his own collection) rather than as super new Stars.

They play for all teams only because if you buy a thing like this and want to use the rules that come with it it's nice to be able to do that. They likely should be Loners (typos do happen). Kick is just a bit of something for anyone who wants to give these two a whirl in casual games.

I eagerly await your angry responses, it is quite literally why I come here.

Thanks.
Thanks for taking the time to put that up, answered my query, as I was unclear how hard it would be to get one. I'm in UK, but travel up there to get them? Hmnnnn, a long way for a model, me being down south. On topic, I know, crazy eh, I actually prefer the old version of Puggy, but that said it is a good model. A duo? nice, adds something to the game and ethos.

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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by stashman »

Heff wrote:My take on kick.

As for Kick team mate I think,
1 it should be KICK or PASS not both. passing needs a buff but this is not it
2 You should have to make a skill roll of some sort to get this off the ground Agility at +2 so will go on a 2+ seems ok. Less tackle zones
3 Tentacles should reduce the chance by a further 1 as the target is being cuddled
4 it should be range focussed so Long, or Long Bomb at an additional -1 to land.
5 scatter should be as per standard rules for TTM
6 there should be a roll to injure the poor stunty if you fail your kick roll.
And this is not to say that I like the rule, I do not. But my version at least addresses some of the broken-ness of it. As it stands you can stand on your touchline and punt a person to the opposing sweet spot, get a 6 forward and nail the landing and you auto score.
The kick team mate feels like some kind of hail mary pass, and thats always on a 2+

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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by Olaf the Stout »

Joemanji wrote:To return to the occurrence rate thing, suppose your work colleague tells you he is only going to sh*t in your coffee once this year. Is that okay because the other 1000 coffees you drink this year won't be soiled? Or would you rather it just didn't happen at all?
This analogy (in regards to Weeping Blades) is the best analogy I've read in a long time! :lol:

To add to the analogy, the only reason he started sh*tting in your cup was because a rumour started in the office that he did that to someone previously. So now he feels like he has to do it as he has a reputation to uphold.

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Re: Grak and Crumbleberry

Post by Slothman »

JT-Y wrote:Grak & Crumbleberry were done months ago, long before any external proofreading was established.
They are just cool models FW wants to be able to sell at events like Open Days, the rules are an afterthought really. They do have quite a bank of such models and every year some go away and new ones come along, for all the systems FW makes models for.

They aren't getting a general release, they aren't intended or even expected to appear in tournaments. The expectation is that they'll get the most use as an Ogre on a team and perhaps an alternative Puggy (which was what the sculptor made that model as, several years ago for his own collection) rather than as super new Stars.

They play for all teams only because if you buy a thing like this and want to use the rules that come with it it's nice to be able to do that. They likely should be Loners (typos do happen). Kick is just a bit of something for anyone who wants to give these two a whirl in casual games.

I eagerly await your angry responses, it is quite literally why I come here.

Thanks.
I haven't read through most of this thread, it got a bit sideways. So apologies if this was asked or responded too.

Why was this not communicated when released??

Personally I have no issue with this as explained. However the way it was released it just looked like a "pay to win model creation" released to a set few that was to be used officially. Something I am dead against.

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